Westminstenders: The Tunnel or Bridge

[RedToothBrush]

Apparently negotiations are in the black hole of the EU tunnel or should that be on the back of the fantasy of the Boris Bridge?

Another week closer to complete meltdown.

I'm guessing that our world beating customs solution will be based on blackboard and chalk.

Not one death in a Hong Kong care home.

August -
"Experts believe there were more deaths over the past month because of outbreaks that occurred in care homes as well as in parts of Kowloon East with many older residents."
"Around 20 care homes, including those for the elderly and the disabled, have reported Covid-19 infections."
"So far, four homes have accounted for 18 deaths, including nine linked to the Kong Tai Care for the Aged Centre Limited in Tsz Wan Shan and seven from Cornwall Elderly’s Home (Golden Branch) in Tuen Mun."
"Deaths from elderly care homes made up more than a third of all Covid-19 deaths so far."

www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3096588/more-elderly-people-will-die-grim-facts-behind

@EmilyontmoorI l thinkI love you. You are on fire today.

Emilyontmoor
the Tory government

Germany have an efficient track and trace system (I am led to believe) - nevertheless, their latest COVID-19 situation report still shows 20,590 positive cases among residents of care homes/other residential facilities and 11,442 members of staff;

"The high number of cases among people cared for or working in various care facilities is consistent with numerous reported outbreaks, especially in nursing homes."

"Since information on occupation, accommodation or care in these facilities is missing in 27% of cases; the numbers of cases working, accommodated or cared for in these facilities reported here should be considered minimum values"

www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Okt_2020/2020-10-08-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

Clav I didn’t realise the third wave got into care homes but even so that is 30 deaths, and none in the first two waves. And Hong Kong has opened up again having successfully contained the virus for a third time. It’s not remotely close to the deaths and other havoc the virus has caused here.

20000 cases in German care homes? Compared to 20000 deaths in U.K. care homes to July.

Germany has had less than 10000 deaths altogether

Rather suggests their track and trace works better than ours 🤔

"The government does not "find" money, it creates it or borrows it, at the expense of taxpayers either immediately or in the future. I really don't like this "pick a high spend programme I don't like" and blame that for our ills line of argument. "

So much taxpayer's money wasted on Track and Trace, PPE etc., it amounts to corruption and theft.
Yet you can't understand why those on furlough are upset at their support being reduced to make already wealthy people even wealthier.

Don't you realise that these people are the taxpayers who contributed to the funds being siphoned off to these incompetents? Of course they're angry: they have every right to be!

Zebracat You have to feel sorry for Clav desperately trying to defend the indefensible

And Hong Kong has opened up again

Obviously not to overseas visitors;

"Travellers from overseas countries/territories, who are not Hong Kong residents, will be denied entry."

20000 cases in German care homes?

Sadly 3,744 deaths.

"surely the person who is being done the favour is the person who continues to receive the 80% of their wages while they are not working?"

No, working people are being compensated for being ordered by the government / society to stop working for the greater public health good,
mostly to save those who are retired

There are 2 choices:

1. let them work as normal and then no need to pay them
2. order them to stop work - for the public good - and pay them

I prefer 2) and the government has indeed chosen a - cheapskate - version of 2)
because 1) would probably mean many 10s of thousands of extra deaths to gain herd immunity

vs sadly ~ 25,000 deaths in Uk care homes

Going by my recollection of ONS and their > 57,000 deaths from Covid

The 67% is what would be paid to e.g. workers in the hospitality and leisure sectors if the govt decides to close them down in some areas,
or puts on SD restrictions that make the business uneconomic to open

The govt are not ordering this out of whimsy or spite, but to save lives of mostly the retired,
i.e. not the workers themselves

That's why those workers deserve 80%, whereas someone unemployed say last year does not,
because these workers are being prevented from earning their normal pay

Weirdly, I know someone who traveled to HK in the last couple of months for her year's stint in the HK University of Science and Technology, along with a cohort of others doing her particular international business degree in a university in California.

Festivals and air shows and plant shows and all sorts of outdoor events were cancelled to "protect the NHS"

Millions of young people are facing fuck all job prospects

but pensioners keep the triple locks and their free TV licences

Clav Opened up the economy, opened up schools etc. As with other countries that have successfully contained the virus their borders have stayed closed to travellers all along though there are dispensations for certain people traveling there on business, to take up jobs etc. I would be very tempted to apply, I would feel a lot safer living there again, were it not for my caring duties here, and the fact that I might be arrested and imprisoned were they to access one of my Master’s essays on the democratic process in Hong Kong or find out I have been attending / accessing subversive seminars and talks at SOAS 🤔

Yes, listening When all these jobs are just cancelled by the govt, to protect public health
then the public should damn well pay the people sacrificing to protect them

and yes, it is overwhelmingly the young - who are very tiny risk - sacrificing & suffering in many ways for the late middle-aged and elderly

If this virus had a similar rate for the age 60+ group as for those aged under 35, there would be no SD whatsoever, as deaths would be too few

Age is the absolute dominant risk factor and we have SD because it is impossible to fully isolate the elderly and the small minority of EVC

And yet the Irish government made a mess with their algorithm as well. Not only that - they didn't tell their coalition partners for 6 days after the discovery. All revealed on a link to the Irish Times via BigChoc's post - the same newspaper linked to on this board when it's convenient - i.e. when columnist Fintan O'Toole mocks the British government.

AHA!

There it is!

Someone doesn't like what Fintan O'Toole has been saying about Brexit or the Tories or the future of the United Kingdom for the last few years.

mathanxiety

Entry and Exit Requirements for US citizens here;
Last updated: 15/09/20

"Are U.S. citizens permitted to enter?"
"U.S. citizens with Hong Kong residency, diplomats, and U.S. citizens that have not travelled outside of mainland China, Taiwan, and Macau in the past 14 days are permitted to enter Hong Kong."
"All non-Hong Kong residents arriving by air from any location other than mainland China, Macau, and Taiwan will be denied entry. Non-Hong Kong residents arriving from mainland China, Macau, or Taiwan will be denied entry if they have been to any overseas countries and regions in the past 14 days."

hk.usconsulate.gov/covid-19-information/

Emily - indeed. A friend of mine's adult dd travelled to HK about a month or so ago to take up a job (I think it's as a TEFL/EAL teacher) . She had to quarantine (properly ) for 2 weeks before she could go out and start work - on top of being tested when she arrived. But she accepted that them's the roolz

Emilyontmoor
Opened up the economy, opened up schools etc.

That's all very well for Hong Kong - but have any British politicians actually supported the idea that the UK should deny entry to non-resident overseas travellers, like Hong Kong and New Zealand - and continue to do so for the foreseeable future?

I thought the Uk govt was going to invite in up to 2 million HK immigrants - which I suspect would be far fewer of the better off / qualified ones

A friend of mine's adult dd travelled to HK about a month or so ago to take up a job (I think it's as a TEFL/EAL teacher)

So 28 days quarantine in total (14 + 14)? Following the info in the US Consulate link.

Perhaps they should? New Zealand and Hong Kong would certainly understand.

In fact Hong Kong is specifically singling out the US and U.K. for more stringent entry requirements. Isn’t it great that we share this honour of being plague central with only a few other countries; Bangladesh, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Nepal, Pakistan, the Philippines, South Africa.

BigChocFrenzy
I thought the UK govt was going to invite in up to 2 million HK immigrants - which I suspect would be far fewer of the better off/ qualified ones

I was referring to coronavirus travel restrictions - have any Labour MPs supported the idea that we should close borders to most travellers, like Hong Kong and New Zealand - for 9/12 months plus?