Westministenders: Brevid

[RedToothBrush]

The government have FINALLY started to treat no deal brexit and covid as one entity in terms of fucking the economy.

On the one hand you have one camp who think they can sneak No Deal through as a consequence of Covid. On the other you have people who realise that it might be quite a good idea not to doubly screw your entire economy and to continue to be able to import medical supplies freely.

We now no that No Deal Brexit will involve passports to get into Kent and 7 mile queues of trucks because this has passed the lips of Gove. Y'know one of those who has been denying this for the past 4 years and presenting it as 'scaremongering'.

We are now firmly into the end game where businesses have to make plans based on the government plans and technology. Y'know the ones that aren't complete yet despite it only being 2 months to go.

Johnson has today done an interview about covid restrictions in the NE in which he got all the detail wrong. Its almost as if he forgot the lines he was instructed to recite and have no fundamental understanding of what rules he's putting into place to control the lives of the population.

As we lurch into October, there is speculation of full local lockdowns being brought in to try and deal with the spiralling number of cases which have to be the result, in no small part, of a dire lack of local testing facilities in the North of England. Meanwhile we've got The App finally. The one that doesn't work and the police and many health care staff are being advised not to use cos its so bobbins and will lead to them constantly isolating needlessly. Thats just something the rest of us have to contend with.

The feeling is that Cummings is up for No Deal. Johnson has been brainwashed into it, which lets face it, isn't too hard given how hard of thinking he is. However there is a growing sense that Johnson may now bottle it and declare victory in the jaws of defeat. That might be a premature hope.

We await the answer and the all important question of whether Christmas is indeed cancelled - that is for everyone who hasn't already cancelled it due to financial hardship...

Nevertheless, some of the headlines in Ireland have been less than kind

Do you really expect a country to be kind to the uk when you see the shit the U.K. has put them in?

Trump's statements on Covid are like his statements about white supremacists and many other controversial topics:

he hints very broadly, so his supporters know what he means, but leaves sufficient ambiguity that he can't be pinned down,
then ducks away the next day and makes a different statement, still ambiguous

e.g. the Proud Boys - a white supremacist group who organise violence - are proudly proclaiming online that the President gave them the go-ahead

He repeatedly said there was no need for masks - and for months he avoided being seen wearing them in public, until finally the personal risk was too high

I don't know of any example of a country breaking an international treaty it had just agreed with another country,

while it is trying to get a 2nd deal with the same country

Being brought before courts doesn't affect getting a deal - the UK has repeatedly been brought before courts
e.g. ECJ: a 2 billion fine for letting in sub-standard Chinese goods
e.g. ECHR: human rights violations, "inhumane and degrading treatment"

and if that was all, the EU would have no worries about the UK reneging on a new treaty

Clav has never answered this question:

Since BJ reneged on the over-ready WA that he signed just months ago, why should the EU believe he won't renege a few months after any new deal ?

They can't even assume he only reneged because he thought the deal was bad

• he & other Brexiters were claiming the WA was a great success, an oven-ready deal in the Tory manifesto

He repeatedly said there was no need for masks - and for months he avoided being seen wearing them in public, until finally the personal risk was too high

Personal risk ? Masks aren't there to protect the wearer, they are there to protect other people. That's why right wing nutjobs have such a problem with them. They simply can't comprehend ever doing anything to ever help someone else.

Until the Brexiters took charge of government, the UK had a high reputation for being law-abiding,
despite court decisions

• which are just normal business for countries in a world subject to massive numbers of UN and WTO rules

Brexiters have squandered the UK's reputation that took decades to build

The word of a UK PM used to be something other countries could rely on
(lying to your own public sometimes and breaking promises to them is also normal for all parties & countries !)

Now the UK is regarded with disgust and mistrust by EU leaders

That lack of trust is the biggest roadblock to a trade deal

@DGRossetti

He repeatedly said there was no need for masks - and for months he avoided being seen wearing them in public, until finally the personal risk was too high

Personal risk ? Masks aren't there to protect the wearer, they are there to protect other people. That's why right wing nutjobs have such a problem with them. They simply can't comprehend ever doing anything to ever help someone else.

.... Several public heallth official have said that masks do bring some benefit to the wearer in reducing risk, even though by far the main benefit is to others

In particular, there are now non-medical masks which kill off viruses
Not easily available yet, but I'm sure the POTUS could have had them if he chose, rather than unproven meds

I like the Irish public health poster I've seen:

I had a horse steak once when during my year in France as part of my degree. It was strong but quite nice.

I had to remind myself that eating horse was no different to eating the Disney representation of a cow beef

Brexiters have squandered the UK's reputation that took decades to build

I've said before it's more like centuries.

I have no doubt you can dig into the past and find some "limited and specific" ways the UK/Great Britain/England has broken a treaty it signed up to.

However I would be astounded if there is any example - going back before 1066 where an English (or Norman) head of state has deliberately signed a treaty with the express intention of repudiating it.

That's getting on for a millennia of history to compare with.

There's a challenge for @Clavinova ! Can they dig up any other comparable example when any combination of the UK countries have broken an international treaty (apart from when we sold Czechoslovakia down the swannee of course ...) ??????

Re White House talking to Pelosi - standard protocol

Re Pence bringing out the vote - the Bible belt states are not the marginals that need to be won. Pence is NOT the man to rally Florida and Pennsylvania

🐿 "Carole Hersee is the girl on Test Card F, which aired on BBC Television from 1967 to 1998. She became the most aired face in British television history, an estimated total of 70,000 hours (nearly eight years). The card was developed in 1967 by her father, BBC engineer George Hersee. Therefore, have some random tangentially positive spin about Trump!" 🐿

Whoever is POTUS - Trump, Pence or Biden - won't in practice make a difference to any possible US FTA

The US will always drive the hardest bargain it can, use its power ruthlessly - which all powerful blocs or countries do, but is called "punishment" then the EU do

Any president will demand that the NI protocol be honoured by the UK, because none of them would risk angering the millions of Irish-American voters
and no FTA would be passed by Congress unless it requires the UK to rule out any goods border in NI

Where the POTUS does make a difference is of course to the Western Alliance, which Trump is trying to smash
the WTO, also trying to smash, the WHO and several other international bodies.

Also, no other POTUS has shown such a preference for foreign dictators and such contempt for genuine democracies

www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-covid-administration-insiders-mike-pence-election-over-b749588.html

We can but hope.

Also, from the Independent:
Trump having ‘some trouble breathing’, reports suggest

While the White House has officially said Donald Trump was displaying only mild symptoms, one of Donald Trump’s advisers has told CNN that the president was having trouble breathing.

"This is serious," the adviser said. The adviser went on to describe Trump as very tired, very fatigued and having some trouble breathing."

And Twitter reckons he was on oxygen when h walked to the helicopter
twitter.com/kakkiman/status/1312215507433517057

btw, it was a US Congressman, Leo Ryan, who was murdered by the Jonestown cult

Those of us old enough can remember the sheer horror of it all:

They were crazy survivalists, terrified of a communist takeover and had much the same kind of conspiracyt fantasies as the whackier Trumpers.

Ryan had flown to Guyana to help the return of a child of members who has left the cult and some other members wanted to leave with him
The cult leaders panicked and had most of them killed at the airstrip before they could leave, but the pilot managed to take off and escape

The mass suicide was because the leaders realised they would otherwise all be arrested and jailed for life / executed after the murders, especially no way out after murdering a congressman
Ryan was very brave and died trying to do his duty to his constituents

Several public health official have said that masks do bring some benefit to the wearer in reducing risk, even though by far the main benefit is to others

Key word being "some" ...

I'm not massively invested in masks. I wore one today at Sainsbos, as you do. But in general I take mask wearing as a proxy for someone who's got a little bit of smarts and isn't going to go around licking door handles whilst sneezing into airvents.

But I stand by my point about the less you care about other people the more likely you are to be a refusenik.

@prettybird

I had a horse steak once when during my year in France as part of my degree. It was strong but quite nice.

I had to remind myself that eating horse was no different to eating the Disney representation of a cow beef

Shopping in Iceland I was amused by their display of meat in the supermarket ... lamb was marked with cartoons of sheep smiling, beef was marked by cows smiling and chicken with cartoons of happy smiling chickens.

The only thing that irritates me more than sanctimonious vegans, is meat eaters who go all queasy about where their meat comes from. I'd like to think I'm sort if in the middle ....

Re Pence bringing out the vote - the Bible belt states are not the marginals that need to be won.

I thought the general analysis of the Trump strategy was not to waste time with converting or appealing to "the other side" but to simply bulk up his natural supporters ???

Ryan was very brave and died trying to do his duty to his constituents

I think it's only proper to remind ourselves how far the present shower of absolute corrupt, incompetent, venal, self-serving, divisive, racist, populist, misogynist, criminal representatives from those that came before.

If Ryan had been killed in 2020, then it's highly likely that Trump would have called him a loser.

I think it's only proper to remind ourselves how far the present shower of absolute corrupt, incompetent, venal, self-serving, divisive, racist, populist, misogynist, criminal representatives from those that came before.

Absolutely 100% on both sides of the Atlantic!

I hope it doesn't bring out a sympathy vote for him. When Johnson was ill back in April, not much was known about the disease, and hence Johnson boasting about shaking hands with Covid-19 patients could have been in genuine ignorance. Now much more is known, so there is no excuse.

I would not normally wish ill on people, but if Trump was to ill to stand for President, I would wish him a happy retirement in Mar a Largo.

I thought the general analysis of the Trump strategy was not to waste time with converting or appealing to "the other side" but to simply bulk up his natural supporters ???
Yes, but they have to come out and vote on the day
that is the bit Pence cannot do

I would not normally wish ill on people, but if Trump was to ill to stand for President, I would wish him a happy retirement in Mar a Largo.
He'll be in prison not Mar a Lago.
He cannot be prosecuted for the multiple breaches while president, but as ex pres he's fair game.
The IRS just jumped to the front of the queue

Yep, the politicians of all parties when I was a kid and a young adult had seen service in WW2, or had served in some other capacity
Some like former Tory PM Ted Heath had even volunteered to fight fascism earlier, in Spain

They had seen the horrors of war
The has seen the horrors of facsism and fought against it

Maybe that changed them, risking their lives for others,
or maybe it brought in politicians who would never have come in normally, but wanted to make something good come out of the war, e.g. the NHS, welfare state, education & uni for ordinary people

Whatever, they definitely had a much stronger sense of duty, responsibility and morality than the current lot in any party
Even those with whose policies and aims I disagreed - I respected them

They were responsible adults who made it their business to find out what they needed to know to govern
Too many politicians now are ignorant fantasists, tantrumming toddlers

In the USA, look at Bush Snr, or McCain (VietNam)
Amazing that the current crop of elderly Republicans mostly avoided the draft that took ordinary Americans.
They are even contemptuous about those who served and justidy why they themselves were too important

• and US voters think the GOP are on the side of the military.

Interesting BBC link Are there any American chat forums I can lurk on to hear what people are saying without the media spin?

Bush Snr, McCain and imo the best post-war POTUS - Eisenhower

How low the GOP have fallen since

US forums seem very polarised, even more so than in the UK
Either they are GOP, or Dems - and btl I find are even more vicious than the Fail