Westministenders: Brevid

[RedToothBrush]

The government have FINALLY started to treat no deal brexit and covid as one entity in terms of fucking the economy.

On the one hand you have one camp who think they can sneak No Deal through as a consequence of Covid. On the other you have people who realise that it might be quite a good idea not to doubly screw your entire economy and to continue to be able to import medical supplies freely.

We now no that No Deal Brexit will involve passports to get into Kent and 7 mile queues of trucks because this has passed the lips of Gove. Y'know one of those who has been denying this for the past 4 years and presenting it as 'scaremongering'.

We are now firmly into the end game where businesses have to make plans based on the government plans and technology. Y'know the ones that aren't complete yet despite it only being 2 months to go.

Johnson has today done an interview about covid restrictions in the NE in which he got all the detail wrong. Its almost as if he forgot the lines he was instructed to recite and have no fundamental understanding of what rules he's putting into place to control the lives of the population.

As we lurch into October, there is speculation of full local lockdowns being brought in to try and deal with the spiralling number of cases which have to be the result, in no small part, of a dire lack of local testing facilities in the North of England. Meanwhile we've got The App finally. The one that doesn't work and the police and many health care staff are being advised not to use cos its so bobbins and will lead to them constantly isolating needlessly. Thats just something the rest of us have to contend with.

The feeling is that Cummings is up for No Deal. Johnson has been brainwashed into it, which lets face it, isn't too hard given how hard of thinking he is. However there is a growing sense that Johnson may now bottle it and declare victory in the jaws of defeat. That might be a premature hope.

We await the answer and the all important question of whether Christmas is indeed cancelled - that is for everyone who hasn't already cancelled it due to financial hardship...

^That stopped as soon as the Polish plumbers arrived ~ 2004
Rates are now fair, not cheap but not extortionate and it's payment for work done.^

It was only half a joke, when a colleague suggested the easiest way to get a good builder was to write an advert in Polish and slip it into the Polish section at Sainsbos.

It illustrates why I object to the lazy stereotype of Leavers being racists and Remainers not
< ducks while DG throws things >

Some Leavers - especially Lexiters - welcome refugees, or immigration from any country based on skill,
whereas some Remainers realised that Brexit would just mean replacing white EU immigrants with 100,000s more from developing countries, or just prioritised the economy over dislike of immigration.

Sorry - I had missed the announcement of the deadline.... and realised after my post that they had given fair warning.

@mrslaughan

Sorry - I had missed the announcement of the deadline.... and realised after my post that they had given fair warning.

Relying on the BBC ?

The advantage of EU migrants surely is that they have safe homes to return to, and when citizens can go to where the work is and send money which can be safely invested at home means that both countries benefit.

@Darker

The advantage of EU migrants surely is that they have safe homes to return to, and when citizens can go to where the work is and send money which can be safely invested at home means that both countries benefit.

I don't think you've been keeping up.

The UK has zero interest in any other countries benefit. Ask Ireland.

@Darker

The advantage of EU migrants surely is that they have safe homes to return to, and when citizens can go to where the work is and send money which can be safely invested at home means that both countries benefit.

... It is true that some will just work for a few years in the UK or an EU country, then return to their own countries to continue their career / job, whereas others will emigrate permanently

Most would come with a reasonable standard of education - so another country has paid for that - and are usually young & healthy
hence why on average they are an economic plus for the UK economy

However, those with a similar standard of education and age from developing countries also are a net gain:

we should never forget how the NHS & essential services recently depended on staff both from the EU and from developing countries

@GhostofFrankGrimes

Still whinging about migrants? Even after they were flown in to pick veg during the pandemic. Even after they worked in care homes and on hospital wards.

Even after the great victory of Brexit people are still going to bang on about migrants. Migrants are not responsible for a decade of austerity nor the great sell off of industry in the 80’s. This country is determined never to learn from its mistakes but it’s a world champ at whinging and blaming everybody else for the shit it is in.

This with bells on

"Ask Ireland"

It is a total perversion of reality for the UK govt to claim their IMB is to prevent the EU "starving" NI,
when it is Britain that has a history of starving Ireland

• the Irish Famine is taught in at least some US schools (according to my NY / Jersey family) as a genocide committed by Britain

Particularly perverted when prominant Tory Brexiters like Patel and Blunt have previously heavily hinted that threats against Ireland should be used as a negotiating tactic

The rest of the EU would charge to the rescue of NI or the RoI if GB logjams - or deliberate actions - stop essential supplies

@GhostofFrankGrimes

Still whinging about migrants? Even after they were flown in to pick veg during the pandemic. Even after they worked in care homes and on hospital wards.

Even after the great victory of Brexit people are still going to bang on about migrants. Migrants are not responsible for a decade of austerity nor the great sell off of industry in the 80’s. This country is determined never to learn from its mistakes but it’s a world champ at whinging and blaming everybody else for the shit it is in.

... 👏🏽👏🏽

Most whingers are not nearly as useful as the immigrants they whinge against

For once , Ghost , most of the contributors on this thread are agreeing with you

With the odd exception

(paywall) Johnson tries to stabilise his listing premiership

www.ft.com/content/2ecb39a3-73ab-473f-ba8d-661111c17bc2

Boris Johnson tried to stabilise his listing premiership on Wednesday, as he sought to end public confusion over his coronavirus strategy and contain a rebellion by Conservative MPs.

“He needs to save himself,” said one senior Tory.

The prime minister’s failure to properly explain some of his own Covid-19 restrictions and the chaotic publication of new virus rules
have in recent days fuelled a sense among Conservative MPs that Number 10 is losing control.

Mr Johnson’s decision to front a Downing Street press conference on Wednesday was an attempt to show he is getting a grip on a second wave of coronavirus,
the backdrop to a deteriorating political situation for him at Westminster.

He blunted a rebellion by as many as 80 Tory MPs who objected to a lack of parliamentary oversight of his coronavirus rules by offering them more of a say over future restrictions,
but the discontent has not gone away.

“The parliamentary party feels bruised we are treated like whipping boys and girls,”
said one Conservative MP.

Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 committee of backbench Tory MPs, has accused Mr Johnson and his ministers of ruling “by decree”.
< that is genuine trouble for BJ >

Historically the 1922 chair is a discreet figure, dispensing candid advice to prime ministers over a brandy in Number 10.
The fact that Sir Graham was leading an open revolt is a sign of how bad things have become for Mr Johnson.
Sir Graham is among those Tory MPs who believe Mr Johnson is introducing new coronavirus rules

• both local lockdowns and national restrictions to curb the resurgence of Covid-19 -

without a clear strategy, proper scrutiny, or due regard to their likely economic impact.

Ominously for Mr Johnson, a number of Conservatives now speak of the need to “live without fear” -
the phrase adopted last week by chancellor Rishi Sunak, a flag-bearer for Tory MPs who want a lighter approach to tackling Covid-19.
< Rishi will be briefed against heavily because of the danger he poses >

mrslaughan
Sorry - I had missed the announcement of the deadline.... and realised after my post that they had given fair warning.
Relying on the BBC ?

DGR - I did that funny, but no, BBC news is banned in our household...... but it must have happened at a time when I was really busy - so not following this thread ..... or my other news sources closely......

“The parliamentary party feels bruised we are treated like whipping boys and girls,” said one Conservative MP.

Boo fucking hoo. How do these dozy fuckers think the country feels then ? Not that that they do. Think or care that is.

Just in immigration- I do think it needs to be thought about...... and I say this as an immigrant. I saw some figures about wealth distribution- and how immigrants tend to take the cream off the top/ tend to be in higher paid jobs. Tbh that sort of surprised me. And then I remembered DGR(I think?) making the point ages ago, about how we just don't train enough Doctors and nurses, and that it's almost been Government policy to import those skills because it's cheaper......and then you have the lower end where cheap labour is used to drive down unskilled jobs - so they don't provide a living wage.....
You also have the class thing in the finance industry..... where you went to the right school/ right uni - you get the right job. But that doesn't necessarily make you any good. Of the 4 most senior in DH team - 3 are immigrants.... and from me looking in - they are the strongest members. As we see in Johnson - right school/ right uni - doesn't make you any good......infact probably makes you lazy in every sense.....
I think immigration can build a vibrant thriving society, but when you do it at the expense of the indigenous population- it's going to cause problems.....

I think immigration can build a vibrant thriving society, but when you do it at the expense of the indigenous population- it's going to cause problems.....
But as ghost rightly identified
moaning about immigrants entirely misses the point.

Training a Doctor through the state school and UK University system
costs a lot more than importing a ready qualified one

To produce enough nurses and medics in the UK would involve significant tax rises to pay for their education

Scientists and researchers are self funding - enough Brits are immigrants into other countries to offset them

as prettybird rightly says, ageing countries need younger workers

it was an entirely political decision after 2010 to demonise
benefit claimants despite the fact that most working age benefit claimants are in work
and immigrants when proper enforcement of NMW abuses like at Boohoo would have solved the issue

As is said in the USA
if an illiterate Guatemalan can steal your job
he is not the problem
you are

Historically the 1922 chair is a discreet figure, dispensing candid advice to prime ministers over a brandy in Number 10.

I still think their day has gone. Only nobody told them.

As things stand, anyone or thing that can be portrayed as even being the tiniest bit "against Brexit" will be destroyed by the willy of the people. And that means you Mr 1922.

An interesting though experiment would be to imagine her madge daring to criticise Brexit. We'd be a Republic before the day was out.

And then I remembered DGR(I think?) making the point ages ago, about how we just don't train enough Doctors and nurses, and that it's almost been Government policy to import those skills because it's cheaper.

Not just that. They can't vote (and we know the more educated you are the less likely you are to vote Tory) and they can be kicked out before you need to pay them a pension. Despite taxing them for maybe 40 years to pay our pensions.

There really is very little on paper to commend using native people to do skilled jobs. They tend to be troublemakers and you can't get rid of them. Despite successive Home Secretaries trying.

I wonder what Patel - and Pepperwort - would have done with the Kindertransport ?
These thousands of damn foreign children, fleeing here from mass murder ....

Or does being white make that much difference re being a "threat" ?

It was no different back then to how it is today. Britain likes to remember itself as a generous safe haven for desperate refugee children, but that's just not true. The people behind to kindertransport had to fight the authorities tooth and nail for every single child they saved. They could only bring children they could find sponsors for them in the UK. The British government and public opinion were hostile to these poor, desperate kids. Just like today a minority of British people had the empathy to dig deep to help refugees.

@FatCatThinCat

I wonder what Patel - and Pepperwort - would have done with the Kindertransport ? These thousands of damn foreign children, fleeing here from mass murder ....

Or does being white make that much difference re being a "threat" ?

It was no different back then to how it is today. Britain likes to remember itself as a generous safe haven for desperate refugee children, but that's just not true. The people behind to kindertransport had to fight the authorities tooth and nail for every single child they saved. They could only bring children they could find sponsors for them in the UK. The British government and public opinion were hostile to these poor, desperate kids. Just like today a minority of British people had the empathy to dig deep to help refugees.

... I read reports of opposition to the Kindertransport, but that seems to have been swept under the carpet as the narrative has become all about how we generously welcomed these refugee kids

Since we know of considerable fascist sympathy in the UK in the 1930s - and indeed 1940s - significant opposition does sound plausible,
even though their sponsors overcame this and changed lives

IMB

Although the IMB needs HoL approval, I have read that the Finance Bill in autumn will also contain provisions that break the WA, at least wrt NI and possibly wrteconomic rules for GB too

The Finance Bill is a Money Bill - and hence will become law after one month, regardless of approval by the HoL

==> Breaking the WA will be enabled this year

Did you watch the programme about the Windermere children? Even knowing that these children had survived the horrors of the death camps, some of the locals were hostile and abusive to them. People knew what they'd been through and still couldn't find an ounce of decency to show them.

Britain contains lots of wonderful, generous, caring people, but then as now it's also full of absolute soulless bastards.

To contrast, what I've read suggests there was support and encouragement for this programme from the British Government and that some children arrived without foster families arranged, so presumably not "only children they could find sponsors for" arrived here.

Well then what you've read is wrong. The government put no barriers on the children arriving so long as they were funded by the Refugee Children's Movement (RCM) who had to guarantee that these children would not need or use public resources. The RCM got it's money from Jewish and other community groups.

Another stain on the UK was the treatment of child refugees from the Spanish Civil War. We did take some but in was the singlehanded effort of a female member of the peerage (whose name escapes me at the moment) who refused to take no for an answer