Westministender: Amen to that!

[RedToothBrush]

On the Anniversary of the Battle of Britain, Johnson went to Westminster Abbey and was trolled. Its almost divine in its irony.

In a week where just about the entire right wing press has turned on him, for being... well shit... They have the dawning realisation that yes all those annoying lefties were right all along when they said he was full of nothing but hot air. He's been ridiculed for being paid £150,000 a year and not being able to feed his 5000 kids and the pictures to mark the anniversary of him becoming PM do little more than look like a man who couldn't tie his own shoe laces without a nanny to help him.

But its not really a laughing matter. This man doesn't understand what legal agreements he's signed so his solution to his ineptitude is to throw his toys out of the pram together with the rule of law. Which he also does not understand.

Johnson is also ever increasingly keen on ripping up inconvient human right and workers right and he has ample opportunity to do all this in the middle of a pandemic.

Unfortunately the hypocrisy of his cronies isn't exactly helping the behaviour of the public and you have to pity the poor behavioural scientists who have to tell him that 'of course the public are going to give you the vs when you tell them you shouldn't do this when your chief advisor claims to be maybe going blind'.

It seems the whole government strategy on managing the virus seems to be falling flat on its face rather sooner than planned cos they stuck Dildo in charge who wouldn't know her Rs from her elbow if it hit her in the face. And we've got Hancock going full on 1984, telling us not to believe the reports that no one can get a test because its all lies - except half the country has either first hand experience of the travesty of Track and Trace or has a close mate who they know is a hell of a lot more reliable than any of these fuckwits when it comes to telling the truth.

Meanwhile in America Bader Ginsburg has managed to die at possibly the most inconvient and dangerous time possible just as the future of democracy in the US is clinging on by its finger nails.

And yes. Money laundering. Haven't we talked about that a lot on these threads. Its almost as if FinCEN was predictable...

Taking back control was always about the elite taking back control from the masses. But if you've managed to keep following all this time, we've been saying that since April 2016 and no one listened then, so why would they start listening now?

Many professions have already been told to switch the app off in some circumstances. It’s easier not to have it instead as the risk of forgetting is too high.

What's the reason for this?

I must admit that I would think twice about downloading an app that some state-run services were actively discouraging their employees from using (unless there a credible explanation for this).

A teacher friend has been advised to turn it off - too many other phones in the classroom, she'll be constantly isolating.

A teacher friend has been advised to turn it off - too many other phones in the classroom, she'll be constantly isolating.

OK so what you're saying is either that it doesn't work, because it can't distinguish at-risk situations, or that it works too well and will lead to excessive absenteeism .

I'd avoid the COVID App thread. There's a constant dribble of Dunning-Krugerites offering their finest, not-even-bothered-to-read-the-thread original dribblings

"The EEA would never admit the UK in a million years"

It's EFTA that say they would not admit the UK;

I expect if BJ did the mother of all U-turns and asked for Barnier's Norway++ after all, then it would be granted - aong with massive eye rolls and the extended transition to implement it.
Norway++ of course requires EEA membership

However, I expect either the most bare bones tariffs & quotas deal - maybe dressed up to look like something better - or (a very bitter) No Deal
Sadly, not anything requiring EEA

@TheElementsOfMedical

I'd avoid the COVID App thread. There's a constant dribble of Dunning-Krugerites offering their finest, not-even-bothered-to-read-the-thread original dribblings

.... I read some of it, but my eyes were rolling out of their sockets and my BP was soaring Too much bollocks to address, so I just stopped reading

Unfortunately, there have been far worse Covid threads.

If Brexit didn't exceed your tolerance for wilful stupifity, then Covid surely must

stupiDity

I wonder if No 10 and Gove have become alarmed at the limb Frost & co have dragged the UK onto
and have agreed Gove should go out to haul them back, to abandon the bluster bollocks and salvage a deal

I was trying to work out where is the best place the UK could end up from here.
What is the softest version of Brexit that Barnier could sign off in time for January?

SM/CU so effectively Switzerland ?

@Red Something that has bothered me;
It seems odd to give a peerage to a civil servant - Frost - who has not retired, but is continuing his job

I can't remember it happening before, other than bringing back a retired civil servant who is a peer,
to fulfill a particular role, e.g. to conduct an enquiry

I wonder if that is because Frost saw No Deal as a probable career-ending failure for both himself and BJ - and a successor PM certainly wouildn't ennoble the civil servant responsible for the debacle.

So he wanted his peerage while BJ was still in office, before agreeing to pursue this highly risky strategy of bluff, aggression and treaty-breaking.

@ListeningQuietly

I was trying to work out where is the best place the UK could end up from here. What is the softest version of Brexit that Barnier could sign off in time for January?

SM/CU so effectively Switzerland ?

.... imo, anything more than bare bones would need an extension to approve and implement

At that, I'm assuming Barnier has several different draft deals stored in the Berlaymont cellar,
because there would be no time to draft from scratch, or do major alterations.

Also, any draft has to be translated into all the EU languages
and then given to the heads of govt and the European Parliament in plenty of time to study.

The UK has shown it will break treaties, so noone on the EU side will agree to rush checking through every page for loopholes.
In fact, they've probably tightened up all the clauses specifying what the UK must do and added some penalties !

Another roadblock:

iirc, the EP - all groupings - have said that they would veto any trade deal unless the UK first withdraws the IMB (internal Market Bill) or deletes all clauses that attempt to break WA provisions

Oh I'm quite sure Barnier has several oven ready deals ready
but any and all will involve complete capitulation by the UK

it would be interesting to know how far he's been pre authorised to go
we've never found out because the UK side kept riding unicorns on the table

Misti I’m working with people wo SD (can’t do it) but with full PPE.
If I was to keep the app on, it would recognise it as an issue and would tell me to self isolate, even though I don’t need to. Because full PPE makes the situation low risk.

The problem is, I wouldn’t know if the message is from a contact at work or from socialising. So I wouldn’t know if I actually need to self isolate.
I’ve been told to switch the app of at work. But obviously the risk of forgetting is high.. Hence it can be easier to not have it at all.

Similar thoughts than the Police force.

The issue with schools is if the app picks up the Bluetooth through a wall and send a message to isolate when the teacher (or child) hasn’t been in contact with the person testing positive.

@Meuniere

Misti I’m working with people wo SD (can’t do it) but with full PPE. If I was to keep the app on, it would recognise it as an issue and would tell me to self isolate, even though I don’t need to. Because full PPE makes the situation low risk.

The problem is, I wouldn’t know if the message is from a contact at work or from socialising. So I wouldn’t know if I actually need to self isolate.
I’ve been told to switch the app of at work. But obviously the risk of forgetting is high.. Hence it can be easier to not have it at all.

Similar thoughts than the Police force.

Btw I mean low risk for Covid according to Track and Trace guidelines.

third meeting of the Joint Committee on the implementation and application of the Withdrawal Agreement.

Gove attending as UK politico,
EU vice president Maros Sefcovic, who has just issued this statment on what they discussed

• I assume the UK would otherwise have chosen to keep the public in the dark (which has been UK govt policy for at least 100 years)

Mostly about implementing NI protocol as in WA
also discussed citizens rights, Gibraltar, Cyprus

... and of course the ongoing IMB in the HoC, intended to break the WA, still going down like a cup of cold vomit

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement200_1766

"I have repeated the EU's request to withdraw the contentious parts of the draft Internal Market Bill by the end of September.
We maintain that the Bill, if adopted in its current form, would constitute an extremely serious violation of the Protocol, as an essential part of the Withdrawal Agreement, and of international law.

The Withdrawal Agreement is to be implemented, not to be renegotiated – let alone unilaterally changed, disregarded or disapplied.

It cannot be stressed enough that the Protocol is specifically designed to protect the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement and the achievements of the peace process,
including avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland."

RTE: Press briefing on above EU-UK Joint Committee

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0928/1167867-eu-trade-talks/

Asked if legal action would be triggered if the UK failed to meet the deadline,
Mr Šefčovič told reporters:

"I reminded the UK government that the Withdrawal Agreement contains a number of mechanisms and legal remedies to address the violation of the legal obligations contained in the text.

The EU will not be shy in using them.

When we will do it, how we will proceed, you will have to give us a little bit of time and will inform you in due course."
< we'll keep the Brits guessing >

He said that full trust between both sides would not be restored unless the UK withdrew the controversial clauses in the Internal Market Bill.
< and even not then. "Whoops, sorry" just doesn't cut it >

Trump must wish he had the power to this

• fortunately for the US he doesn't; unfortunately for the uK, BJ does

I keep exclaiming in horror at the power of the executive in the grossly over-centralised UK
Few democracies allow such power to their leader, especially with so few checks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/28/abolish-district-councils-labour-red-wall-tory

Abolishing district councils could help bolster Conservative MPs in former Labour strongholds by reducing local opposition
a leading Tory has suggested to the prime minister in a leaked letter.

I rather like the word stupifity.
There’s a spluttering element to it, a bit like a Daily Express headline.

Judging by past form, there is a big U-turn on the horizon. The Daily Express has been screaming that the"EU has backed down" and allowed talks whilst the Telegraph is urging Rishi "to get us out of this mess with a clean break from the EU".

I don't recognize the reality of either paper but articles like this indicate disquiet from whoever is feeding them in London.

Is that a U turn or just a sign that they have turned on Johnson?

People trying to distance themselves from the inevitable disaster?

The issue with schools is if the app picks up the Bluetooth through a wall and send a message to isolate when the teacher (or child) hasn’t been in contact with the person testing positive.

This applies to anyone, in an office or public transport, where proximity does not mean virus exposure - particularly where mask wearing is obligatory.

On that note, just got an email from my employer to say that face coverings are now (almost) obligatory on site, except when handling chemicals (need to wear industrial standard PPE instead) or when there is a risk of a mask becoming entangled in machinery.

At least British businesses are starting to understand aerosol transmission - even if government still pretends that it doesn't happen in the classroom.

This applies to anyone, in an office or public transport, where proximity does not mean virus exposure - particularly where mask wearing is obligatory.

Yep. This was DH's first thought when he heard about the app and it using Bluetooth. The one third false positive thing is an underestimation for a lot of people.

My mind boogles at the sheer number of people who think the app will keep them safe too.

Bcf it hadn't even crossed my mind with Frost, but yes why take a job that no one else wants unless you have been fully incentivised...