Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2020 18:09

I mean its not as if trade deals and human rights are relevant is it?

(sorry eating my dinner so must be brief)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
69
ListeningQuietly · 13/09/2020 13:07

Tee hee
I forgot the rainbow chard - I'm sick of that by February
People who do not grow winter veg seem to forget that you germinate in March to eat the following March.
I've just started harvesting Kale (Cavolo Nero - has a place in any flower border) and I'll be eating it through till mid March.
Rainbow Chard was sown in March and I'll eat it till next March - also a fine plant for an ornamental border.

but yes, the food that the UK will have to hand if the border is stuffed in January will be VERY boring.

They were warned. But did not listen.

TheElementsOfMedical · 13/09/2020 13:15

LQ We sowed a whole bed of rainbow chard a couple of months ago and it now looks really nice - we're actually going to cut some to have with our roast this evening - but do you know whether we can leave it growing and harvest throughout the winter? (Yesterday we sowed some perpetual spinach, which is apparently also a form of chard, as our winter crop).

ListeningQuietly · 13/09/2020 13:22

Elements
It is absolutely hardy
I've picked it with frost on the leaves
chop off any flowering stems and be fussy as it will grow right through the winter.
THis is my favourite recipe
cnz.to/ingredients-fine-foods/pounti/
we do it without the meat as a side dish as well

Jason118 · 13/09/2020 13:25

Taking a short break from Gardeners Question Time Grin this gem resurfaced and shows, once again, how basic and obvious the NI question has always been.

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?
AuldAlliance · 13/09/2020 13:33

Thanks, Mistgri
Unfortunately, none of our windows opens more than a few centimetres, as an anti-suicide measure. Lecture halls have one door at the front, one at the back, with one or both leading onto an airless corridor. Zero ventilation.
No time to leave rooms to "air" between classes: they are all fully booked from 8am-7pm every day.

I am meant to teach half a group and live-stream the class to the other half via Zoom. We have been assured the server and bandwidth can cope with hundreds of classes being zoomed simultaneously, but the server crashed every day last week when no one was doing that. Not to mention HTF I teach to two such different audiences audibly and clearly with a mask on.

There are normally 15000 students on my campus; as they have divided them into half-groups, that leaves 7500 students (plus all staff) in one huge building, with: fairly narrow corridors that now have a vague line down the middle to divide them into 2; a one-way system on staircases that students will ignore because it involves detours, sometimes of several hundred meters; no space for waiting in front of classrooms in anything but a huddle.

Was hoping Castex's announcement might help nudge the university to close campus to students.
Now I'm hoping the Préfet will: we will inevitably be a huge cluster and students will stream in and out on public transport between Aix and Marseille. Not to mention that we will probably last about a week trying to teach in that manner before the Dean admits it's batshit crazy and we shift to online teaching, having expended endless energy on an obviously flawed "hybrid" plan.

Sorry, venting now...

QueenOfThorns · 13/09/2020 13:33

I will have kale, perpetual spinach and purple sprouting broccoli in February. Also leeks, if I leave them that long. Waiting for no deal to happen before starting to grow veg is probably not a good plan!

Elements, it’s my first time growing perpetual spinach as well. It’s growing back incredibly fast when I cut it and I made some beautiful saag aloo with it yesterday.

tantamountto · 13/09/2020 13:39

I'm lazy and will be buying lots of frozen peas, plus some butternut squash, onions, and anything else which looks as though it lasts a while. Then planting veg in the spring.

ListeningQuietly · 13/09/2020 13:51

Auld
Its interesting re bandwidth.
I suspect a lot of systems are going to really struggle once universities are trying to stream lectures at the same time as schools are streaming classes and offices are streaming work.

Then again if young people can be kept in bubbles on campuses that takes pressure off inter generational transmission for a couple of months.....

Mistigri · 13/09/2020 13:58

Auld - I suspect most facs are going to encounter the same problem and like you I don't expect face to face teaching to last long. My DD starts classes tomorrow, I give it a couple of weeks ...

At INSA they are soldiering on with in-person classes despite rampant COVID ... but it's a different environment (large spread-out, low-rise campus with students grouped into small classes). So far it seems that virus transmission has not occurred in classes, it's the restaurant + out of school socialising that are the problem.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 13/09/2020 13:59

The bandwidth thing is going to be a real challenge.

OchonAgusOchonO · 13/09/2020 14:04

@AuldAlliance - ugh. Sounds like our campus. The centre has taken an extraordinarly liberal interpretation of government guidance and wants 30% on campus for all students. If it's not possible to have "a meaningful on-campus experience" with 2m distancing, we will go with 1m nose-to-nose with additional measures (i.e. masks)!

It's utterly ridiculous. If they were even saying 1m shoulder to shoulder with additional measures when absolutely essential (e.g. certain labs for specific students or whatever), I could maybe see the logic. It's all about justifying the fees. What amazes me is the student union is not objecting.

However, our union is objecting strenuously but they tend to ride roughshod over us.

AuldAlliance · 13/09/2020 14:22

It's quite crap, really.
Campuses are going to be the new Cheltenham race course...

GeistohneGrenzen · 13/09/2020 14:28

Queen and other Toilers of the Soil last year I read you can sow kale up til the end of October and it should survive down to -5'. It just stops growing until above freezing. I didn't read this til mid November but took the chance anyway and it's been fine. Also the perp spinach which is still growing strong. I've a second lot of Cavalo Nero on the go in containers but because of severe lack of space it wasn't thinned out but is picked more as a medium cut and come again crop. I think I'll buy some Rainbow Chard seed and try that too! Jerusalem artichokes in containers look to be o.k.

Peppers and stuff like that - dried 1K packs are the way to go for me...
but I live on my own so think I'm probably sorted.

At present I'm harvesting ridge cucumbers and cherry tomatoes and cutting good long celery stems from the re-growth of two stumps of supermarket celery bought about 5mos ago Smile

OchonAgusOchonO · 13/09/2020 14:29

Campuses are going to be the new Cheltenham race course...

Quite likely.

DGRossetti · 13/09/2020 15:28

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/12/top-lawyers-slam-suella-braverman-for-wrecking-uks-reputation

theguardian.com
Top lawyers slam Suella Braverman for wrecking UK’s reputation
Toby Helm
10-12 minutes

The attorney general, Suella Braverman, was on Saturday accused of sacrificing the UK’s reputation, sidelining legal advisers and bypassing the ministerial code during an extraordinary confrontation with some of the country’s top lawyers.

During the annual general meeting of the Bar Council, the professional association for barristers, Braverman was asked how Britain could retain “a shred of credibility” in imploring other countries to follow international law after revealing its own willingness to breach agreements.

The criticisms came after the government last week unveiled plans to give ministers sweeping powers to “disapply” part of the Brexit deal that Boris Johnson signed in January.

Five QCs confronted the attorney general during Saturday’s meeting, telling her that a crime which broke the law in a “specific and limited way” – the phrase used by the Northern Ireland secretary, Brandon Lewis, when he announced the move – was still a crime.
New Brexit bill does break international law, says Northern Ireland secretary – video

The attacks came as Boris Johnson faced a growing rebellion over the explosive proposals in the internal market bill, with more senior Tories suggesting they could not support provisions that ministers admit breach international law. Former prime ministers Sir John Major and Tony Blair jointly condemned the Brexit legislation as imperilling the Irish peace process, trade negotiations and the UK’s integrity.

“It puts the Good Friday agreement at risk, because it negates the predictability, political stability and legal clarity that are integral to the delicate balance between the north and south of Ireland that is at the core of the peace process,” they wrote in the Sunday Times.

“This has wide-ranging ramifications. It will not only make negotiation with the EU more difficult, but also any trade negotiations with other nations, including the United States. Once trust is undermined, distrust becomes prevalent.”

They said that while they had opposed Brexit, they accepted it was happening, and this approach was “wrong in principle and dangerous in practice”.

Some critics are imploring Theresa May to take the lead in opposing the plans, to be debated in the Commons this week. One former minister said there was “exasperation” among Tories and that “the mood had changed”, even among some pro-Brexit new MPs.

Asked if she believed ministers were breaking the ministerial code with the legislation, Braverman on Saturday dodged the question by stating that the code was not legally enforceable. Pressed, she suggested the cabinet secretary had ruled that the code would not be breached.

She was also confronted over why she had sought advice on the measures from three pro-Brexit legal figures, including one junior barrister who had worked with the Vote Leave campaign, rather than relying on senior government lawyers. She refused to disclose the advice she had received, but said that seeking external opinions was not unusual.
Boris Johnson leaves Downing Street for prime minister’s questions in the House of Commons.
Boris Johnson leaves Downing Street for prime minister’s questions in the House of Commons. Photograph: Barcroft Media/Getty Images

Braverman was asked what had changed since former justice minister Lord Faulks stated in 2015 that ministers would not breach international law. She said his statement reflected “government policy at the time”.

The proposals were needed to resolve tensions between domestic and international law created by the EU withdrawal agreement, she said, but the government remained “committed to the rule of law”.

The new measures are designed to ensure that in the event of a no-deal outcome, no checks are needed when goods travel from Northern Ireland to Great Britain, and that the UK can set its own state aid rules. However, they breach the EU withdrawal agreement. The EU has made clear that there can be no future trade deal should the UK press on with the measures. Olaf Scholz, the German finance minister, said on Saturday that a no-deal Brexit would hurt the British economy far more than the EU. “Europe would be able to deal with it and there would be no particularly serious consequences after the preparations we have already made,” he said.

Tory concerns were mounting over the new legislation this weekend. A significant rebellion would be needed to overturn the government’s 80-strong majority, but potential rebels are hoping that May will lead the charge. She is said to be away from the Commons for the first vote on the plans on Monday, when many Tory MPs are likely to at least withhold their support. However, key votes could yet happen next week.

Former cabinet minister Andrew Mitchell said: “The EU is behaving extremely badly in these negotiations. It is quite extraordinary that they appeared willing to offer Theresa May a Canada-style deal which they are now not prepared to offer Boris Johnson. However, while the [internal market] bill overall is important and right, I think it will be extremely difficult to vote for provisions which quite specifically seek to breach international law.”

Tobias Ellwood, the Tory chair of the defence select committee, also said he could not vote for the measures unamended. “Already this bill is damaging brand UK, diminishing our role-model status as defender of global standards. As we go to the wire, let’s see more British statecraft – less Nixonian madman theory,” he tweeted.

Senior MPs said they still believed a serious rebellion could break out in the Commons if provisions in the internal market bill were rejected by the House of Lords. One leading backbencher said there could be early support for an amendment to give parliament a veto, tabled by the Tory chair of the justice select committee, Sir Bob Neill: “I think there will be some votes against at second reading but some will also abstain. Others may vote for a second reading then reconsider and vote for amendments later if ministers do not back off. If the Lords reject it and the government does not give way, I think it could lose in the Commons on this very important issue.”

In an Opinium poll for the Observer on Sunday, 46% of all voters say it is “unacceptable” for the government to break international law, against 33% who say it’s acceptable. Among people who voted remain in 2016, 67% say it is unacceptable and 21% acceptable. Among leavers, fewer than half (45%) think it is acceptable while 31% believe it unacceptable.

The poll puts the Tories on 42% (up two on a fortnight ago) with a three-point lead over Labour on 39% (down one), and shows 52% now believe the UK will leave the EU without a deal; 50% believe this would be bad for the economy.

QuestionMarkNow · 13/09/2020 15:55

PMK

OhYouBadBadKitten · 13/09/2020 16:05

Some universities are being really sensible in the way they are managing a return. Cambridge are putting in a string of measures that reassures this slightly anxious parent. In fact my anxieties are more around whether dd will end up being too isolated when she returns, given she leans towards solitude anyway.

prettybird · 13/09/2020 16:13

Braverman was asked what had changed since former justice minister Lord Faulks stated in 2015 that ministers would not breach international law. She said his statement reflected "government policy at the time”.

Shock

This "government policy" dependent attitude towards International Law is on a par with Buckland's only "unacceptable breaking of the law by the government " being enough for him to resign. Both of them have supposedly sworn to uphold the law ShockHmmConfusedAngry

Pepperwort · 13/09/2020 16:24

@DGRossetti

I think the day you suddenly realise you have to rely on lawyers to save you, is the day you realise you are well fucked.
GrinSad
quiteathome · 13/09/2020 16:29

We would starve here if we relied on my gardening skills.

And it is not the Blitz, therefore I don't need any Blitz spirit. Anyone who tells me I need some deserves a slap.

DGRossetti · 13/09/2020 16:32

@prettybird

Braverman was asked what had changed since former justice minister Lord Faulks stated in 2015 that ministers would not breach international law. She said his statement reflected "government policy at the time”. Shock

This "government policy" dependent attitude towards International Law is on a par with Buckland's only "unacceptable breaking of the law by the government " being enough for him to resign. Both of them have supposedly sworn to uphold the law ShockHmmConfusedAngry

I suspect they are preparing a narrative that it's OK to disregard treaties and laws if it's to deliver Brexit, since it's the "will of the people".

The only way that the JRMs and Odeys of this world can stand to gain from trashing the UKs reputation is if they have been actively betting against the UK in the international markets and now stand to cash in as there's an exodus from sterling. Arguably close to, if not actually what constitutes treason.

JamieLeeCurtains · 13/09/2020 16:36

I have thought it treason for a while.

QueenOfThorns · 13/09/2020 16:43

How could actively harming your country for personal gain be anything but treason?

Peregrina · 13/09/2020 16:44

I sincerely hope that when sanity eventually returns that the likes of Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Braverman are tried and imprisoned.

DGRossetti · 13/09/2020 16:47

@JamieLeeCurtains

I have thought it treason for a while.
It probably isn't - thanks to our archaic and clearly useless monarchy treason is something about conspiring to kill the monarch. I think the US has it better.

Mind you - as LBJ discovered with Nixon - having evidence of treason that was gathered ... questionably ... makes it difficult to prosecute it in open court. Hence tricky dicky got away with it. As it seems Trump will (and is).