Westminstenders: Run Forrest Run

[RedToothBrush]

Need i say more?

Peregrina
My mistake obviously.

Apology accepted.

Hang on, did the universe just wobble ?

Was Clav complaining about someone cut'n'pasting ?

I was referring to clav's post as lacking compassion. While it may or may not be factual, ( I haven't checked) it lacked or appeared to lack any awareness that these are not just statistics, but real lives that have been ended too soon. People with families, colleagues, friends.

Discuss statistics by all means, but don't forget the people behind them, nor the readers who may be directly affected. Thinking particularly of squid as a westminstenders regular on the front line.

On the BBC, our national broadcaster has, I’m sorry to say, allowed it’s output to become wildly unrepresentative of the nation who pays for it.

The BBC allows virtually no comment contributions that I see from the right, check evening news “paper reviews” for example and count how many times the contributors are balanced, how many both contributors are from the right, and how many both are from the left.

The thing about QT audiences is a total red herring IMO, QT audiences are ordinary voters. The right measure is QT panellists, and left leaning contributors are almost always the majority. Yes I know Farage was on loads but he’s literally the only one, there are usually multiple people from the left on every edition.

Ask yourself this, when is the last time you heard BBC report speaking positively about EU exit? i.e. when did they express excited anticipation at “just X number of days to go until the transition period ends.” I suggest to you that millions of Britons hold that view, yet where is it reflected from BBC journalists?

How can you speak positively about something that isn't ? Even by Brexit supporters it's accepted that it will be shit. Positive shit anyone?

And you see Louise my DH announced they other night he was banning bbc new because wit had just become state propaganda..... I can't remember the two previous articles - but I think one was brexit and one was Covid - both just repeating the government's line - without any analysis, or critical thinking.
Just because people don't like the the reality doesn't mean you shouldn't report it.

Also see their coverage of the gov trying to remove judicial review .... esp with its majority and tame back benchers they can literally re-write the law. Instead they want to remove our democracies protection. The government will be able to (continue) to break the law with impunity.

Ask yourself this, when is the last time you heard BBC report speaking positively about EU exit?

Maybe there aren't any ?

Anyway, my ire with the BBC grew from R4 and Today", reaching a climax (a word I use quite deliberately, given the nature of my aural experience ...) when there was a Jon Humphries piece where he interviewed one: Nigel Farage, and immediately after, one: Tony Blair. The subject was a second referendum.

First Farage was gently soaped up. Humphries taking the greatest of care to not mention anything, thus allowing Farage to discharge himself with no obstacles. Presumably onto his union Jack bedspread (as I can't see him having "continental" quilts).

Then Blair. And you could hear Humphries teeth sinking into the flesh (which given it was over the phone, tells you how hard he was biting). Poor old Tony didn't finish a single sentence, and was pressed for a cite for every assertion he made - including the weather. All you took away from the exchange was that Tony Blair couldn't put his case. Not because he had none (we never discovered). But simple he wasn't allowed to.

I've mentioned that exchange before and others here remember it, so it's not my fevered imagination.

As 9/11 was happening, and I managed to get hold of DB (who was working near the Pentagon) and check he was OK, he replied that his office were all watching the news on the BBC as the all agreed "US news is the pits". (There was an international dimension to the place). But that was then. Not now.

Clav There are about 4 million health workers in Germany and no, there wasn't enough PPE at the beginning,
but ministers apologised for this and didn't blame the HCPs for "wasting" PPE

There are so far 23 deaths, which would be average for the working age range wrt the total deaths in the country

For teachers and educational staff, the total is 7 deaths, for > 1 million staff, also average deaths wrt their age groups

540 deaths in the UK looks higher than average occupation, even considering the UK's higher deaths
Of course the disgusting attempts to blame HCPs for wasting PPE added insult to injury, showing total contempt despite the fine words

PMK

DGR
Scarily many people in the US still trust the BBC news as theirs has become even more dire

Louise What positive things do you want the BBC to say ?
No media outlet except the hard right can see any - and they either fantasise or write happily about the cost savings in slashing workers rights and consumer protection

They keep doing vox pop with Brexit-supporting members of the public, more than with Remainers

They can't state positive economic advantages without outright lying and massive cherry-picking

e.g. the "£350 million for the NHS" is much less than the extra costs businesses face in red tape alone from leaving the Single Market,
even before we come to the massive losses caused by the end of frictionless trade with the EU

There is an estimated 0.6% gain in GDP from any US FTA, which is the FTA with the greatest opportunity,
vs the minimum 4% drop from losing access to the Single MArkett

Brexit & Workers' rights

Leaver Moggy:
“We could say, if it’s good enough in India, it’s good enough for here. There’s nothing to stop that.

Leaver Priti Patel (then employment secretary) boasted to the Institute of Directors about the "bonfire of workers' rights" she wants after Brexit.

The Open Europe (pro-Brexit) think tank have a hit list of workers' rights to repeal which they claim bring zero benefit to business, just costs, including:

. Working time rules (£4 billion a year )
. Agency worker regulations (£500 million)
. Parental & maternity leave regulations (a snip at £60 million a year)
. Harassment regs flowing from EU law (£180 million)
. Various health & safety regs (e.g. asbestos regulations £23 million)

A similar Brexit group, Economists for Britain, also identified removing gender equality and working time

As you probably know DGR John Humphries hasn’t been presenting Today for quite some time. I can’t remember exactly when, I stopped listening maybe 2 years ago. I don’t remember any such exchange but it’s a long voiced criticism of him that he was softer on the right than the left.

I am assuming from your comment that Tony Blair was advocating for a second referendum, that certainly accords with public statements I’ve seen from him.

Since a second referendum before the result of the first were enacted would be (by any reasonable assessment) wholly illegitimate, I am rather unsurprised that Humphries was firmer with Blair than Farage.

If Blair wanted to make an ass of himself of Today, then I share your view that Humphries should have let him make the argument with fewer interruptions (a practice I absolutely hate) but since most of the words that pass Blair’s lips is are self serving lies I wouldn’t be surpirsed JH lost his patience with him.

Just read the contempt that leading Tory Brexiters have for British workers:

e.g. "Britannia Unchained"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/07/boris-johnson-government-britannia-unchained

Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Liz Truss
.....
“The British are among the worst idlers in the world,”
.....
“We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.
Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.”
......
They advised fellow Conservatives to double down on austerity,
and maintain their faith in old-fashioned laissez-faire economics.

Loiuse
Ask yourself this, when is the last time you heard BBC report speaking positively about EU exit?
Or ITV
or Channel 4
or Sky
or Reuters
or CNN
or in fact any news source?
Find me any factual positive Brexit story - of the type that the BBC should have covered.

By the same analogy, the BBC does not cover many positive Climate Change stories - for obvious reasons

If the BBC were doing their job, they would be asking these Tory ministers about the contempot they expressed for the British people

Ask yourself this, when is the last time you heard BBC report speaking positively about EU exit? i.e. when did they express excited anticipation at “just X number of days to go until the transition period ends.” I suggest to you that millions of Britons hold that view, yet where is it reflected from BBC journalists?

Why do you want the BBC to be a vehicle of government propaganda?

BBC would look pretty fucking stupid if they started promoting excitement about the end of transition ... and it turned out to be exciting in all the wrong ways.

Personally even if I were a supporter of Brexit I'd find it hard to get excited about new lorry parks. What is it we are supposed to be excited about?

I admit to being less than thrilled at the prospect of applying to live in my own home.

"Since a second referendum before the result of the first were enacted would be (by any reasonable assessment) wholly illegitimate"

Is a General Election illegitimate before a government has been able to carry out its manifesto ?

The whole principal of British Parliamentary democracy is that no Parliament can bind its sucessors

The referendum was specifically non-binding - and was passed on that basis - but even if it had been binding, the next Parliament could have cancelled it.

This Parliament or any other can repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act, quit NATO, cancel Trident, order Trident 2 x bigger, abolish the HoL, apply to become the 51st state, rejoin the EU .....

There are no limits except what is against international law

As you probably know DGR John Humphries hasn’t been presenting Today for quite some time.

So ?

I am assuming from your comment that Tony Blair was advocating for a second referendum, that certainly accords with public statements I’ve seen from him.

It was difficult to tell. I'm not exaggerating, he didn't get to finish a single sentence.

Since a second referendum before the result of the first were enacted would be (by any reasonable assessment) wholly illegitimate, I am rather unsurprised that Humphries was firmer with Blair than Farage.

Maybe Blair was reinforcing Jacob Rees Moggs suggestion of a second referendum ? Who knows ? I don't as I never got to hear.

If Blair wanted to make an ass of himself of Today, then I share your view that Humphries should have let him make the argument with fewer interruptions (a practice I absolutely hate) but since most of the words that pass Blair’s lips is are self serving lies I wouldn’t be surpirsed JH lost his patience with him.

This wasn't "lost patience". This was "attack from the opening question".

Anyway, it's all immaterial now. The only way I'd miss the BBC is if BBC4 went (and you already know that's top of their hit list).

And even then, I can probably do without half hour documentaries that have been stretched to an hour with all sorts of irrelevant guff. If I want to learn about decoding cosmic radio noise and how it might have hinted at alien intelligence then I really, really, really don't need to hear how two scientists working on it started dating and got married.

BlackeyedSusan
Thank you for the lecture - any comments on BigChoc's use of "f...wit" etc in a sensitive post? Will you be keeping an eye on other contributors to Westminstenders in the future?

This Parliament or any other can repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act, quit NATO, cancel Trident, order Trident 2 x bigger, abolish the HoL, apply to become the 51st state, rejoin the EU .....

Rejoining the EU isn't possible in this parliament and almost certainly not in the next either (rejoining the EEA might be possible, if they'll have us).

@Mistigri

This Parliament or any other can repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act, quit NATO, cancel Trident, order Trident 2 x bigger, abolish the HoL, apply to become the 51st state, rejoin the EU .....

Rejoining the EU isn't possible in this parliament and almost certainly not in the next either (rejoining the EEA might be possible, if they'll have us).

The EU will have changed beyond all recognition by the time England would be in a fit state to join it. Not "rejoin". Join.

"Louise What positive things do you want the BBC to say?"
No media outlet except the hard right can see any - and they either fantasise or write happily about the cost savings in slashing workers rights and consumer protection

they could talk positively about the point when we are able to retake fuller control of our own lawmaking
they could talk positively about the new trade opportunities we can build with the rest of the world from our new position
they could talk positively about the forthcoming end of EU free movement
they could talk positively about increased availability of goods from other parts of the world and consequently lowered prices
they could talk positively about the ending of absurdities like the EU working time directive

The EU will have changed beyond all recognition by the time England would be in a fit state to join it.

Why do you think that? Significant change will require a new treaty. With 27 members, treaty change is going to be slow and will require a high level of consensus. That makes dramatic changes unlikely.

OTOH I don't expect the U.K. to rejoin or join (however you want to put it) in my lifetime. EEA membership possible but might require a couple of Labour terms.

Oh Louise you are so funny