Westminstenders: Run Forrest Run

[RedToothBrush]

Need i say more?

Louise
Why would lorry drivers self regulate their hours?
Don't be daft.
They will maximise profits by drinking Red Bull and driving for 24 hours at a stretch.
Tachos were brought in to stop them killing people
bloody red tape

Have you not been watching the news from Leicester about Boohoo and its supply chain?
RED TAPE SAVES LIVES

Red Tape - lack of - Grenfell.

Why does it have to be spelt out?

Why wouldn't they? its called personal responsibility.
If their hours need to be regulated then they can be, no European directive needed.

"heard about Leicester..." I live close enough to the City to still be in lockdown even now. The Boohoo thing is ridiculous, they obviously haven't checked carefully enough who their suppliers are. Those factories need to be shut down ASAP by the local Authorities/HSE, still ain't happening.

its called personal responsibility.
What, like the Boohoo factory workers accepting wage slips that effectively pay them £3 per hour

Peregrina Agree totally on Grenfell.

I'm not sure how much red tape is really needed, allowing flammable materials to be used in the construction of or cladding of buildings is idiotic. Simply shouldn't be allowed, ever. All should have been removed by now, that it hasn't happened is a scandal. Only argument is who pays?! MO it should be the developer/owner of the building, not the taxpayer and not any private tenants (living in a flat in an affected block, say)

The utter, utter tragedy of Grenfell is that (among many other examples I could cite) the dangers of using such materials have been plain as day for well over 40 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerland_disaster

Simply shouldn't be allowed, ever
But Jenrick has just pushed through permitted development that will allow people to change buildings without planning permission or oversight .....
The HSE will not know what is being done
nor will Building Control
nor will the Council
until there is another Grenfell

www.amazon.co.uk/Ragged-Trousered-Philanthropists-Wordsworth-Classics/dp/184022682X

For Louise, a glimpse into our future past.

Thanks for the comment about "permitted development". Depends what the building regulations say I guess, I wouldn't have the first clue if I'm honest, but since we have all these buildings with dangerous cladding, it looks like they did permit some things they probably shouldn't have, even if they have subsequently been chanaged. i found this informative

www.bdonline.co.uk/news/jenrick-set-to-reveal-details-of-planning-deregulation/5107103.article

Why wouldn't they? its called personal responsibility
If there are no laws then each driver is competing with the worst - personal responsibility doesn't put bread on the table when someone is taking your business by driving twice the hours in a day.

It's academic anyway - the no of EU permits available to us next year mean that the majority of UK HGV drivers will only be able to drive in the UK - so most will be out of a job - there isn't the work.

What Louise is clearly unable to do is provide any example statement that the BBC might use and meet her criteria of 'talking positively about'

Already provided several thanks Frankenstein

As for HGV drivers losing work... frankly, good. Mass movement of goods over long distances should be being completely reimagined to occur by primarily by rail in future. Commuting of rail passengers should be strongly discouraged post COVID to create the paths on the network for new freight movements. Road hauliers should be focusing on short distance delivery markets IMO.

The is already nowhere near self sufficient for food - and that's before the looming spectre of climate change reducing what we can and do grow anyway. Bearing in mind Team Brexits answer to food imports was for somebody else to just grow more here.

I'm also suspecting that sea level rising will turn out to be a much more complex and violent affair than it sounds.

Lorry drivers are professionals, they should be capable of exercising their judgement about whether they are safe to drive, if they aren't they are in the wrong job. If their judgement is at fault and they cause a serious accident they should go to prison and their driving ability should then be moot because their license should be removed.

Hahaha.....
Really? Shall we also apply that to all other areas?

Like, food manufacturere shoud apply their judgemnet and if people get ill and die (lets say because of salmonella) then ... well from past experience, company will be fined a small amoujt compare to what theyve earnd so will just carry on.....

Or chorinated chicken sells better and is cheaper so lets do that and though if the consumer doesnt want it.

Or we could apply that on all medical decsion. Doctors deciding that using x product is the right one even if it hasnt been tested/is labelled dangerous/they dont have the right training.

Im looking forward to those times...

Mass movement of goods over long distances should be being completely reimagined to occur by primarily by rail in future
What rail lines?
Have you read nothing about how Franchising does not work?
And how will the stuff get from the train to the shop ?

If their hours need to be regulated then they can be, no European directive needed.

This is so naive, I hardly know where to start. We no longer send children down coal mines, or little boys up chimneys, and not because we don't mine coal any more, but because we fought hard to have decent working conditions. Conditions which you seem to want to have thrown away. Yes there are plenty of parts of the world where small children do go down mines, or don't go to school but are out in the fields tending crops - which Rees-Mogg thought would be good enough for us. You can bet your bottom dollar that it wouldn't affect any of his kids though.

the same rail lines we have now listening, hell build some more, building infrastructure is a good thing.

If passenger rail services remained at lockdown levels, like 20% of the pre Covid normal, we'd have so much rail capacity to spare. Also, there would be a benefit because masses of new freight wagons would need to be built.

how will the stuff get from the train to the shop?
"Road hauliers should be focusing on short distance delivery markets IMO." smaller vehicles = cheaper to run, cheaper drivers as well :-)

Why should that regulation require European law? Peregrina. It doesn't, it just doesn't.

I would desperately like to sell some of my leave back to my employer this year, I'd far rather have the extra money than essentially wasted time off when I am in a lockdown, why should EU law prevent me from doing that?

the same rail lines we have now listening, hell build some more, building infrastructure is a good thing.

It's also a good thing that the UK - England in particular - are absolute pants at.

Crossrail and the never ending HS2 to you. With runways on top and the permadrought South East underneath.

the same rail lines we have now ...

Yes, well, there used to be a railway line from Didcot down to Southampton. This would now be very useful and take excess goods traffic off the roads. Do you want the housing estates that have been built on part of where the track was, to be demolished? Or how about the section of the A34 which was dualled taking in the old railway track? Should we dig the road up again? Parts of the old track bed became a sustrans path, and yes, we could relay track there, and re-create the infrastructure to make it viable, signalling, stations etc.

It could be done if the will was there, but the will hasn't been there for 50 odd years.

It need not be European Law; it could be UK Law as indeed UK laws had quite often become EU Laws. It's just that with the present form of Tory Government which wants to make a bonfire of workers rights, laws like this don't get passed anymore.

Are you 100% sure that it's an EU law which is stopping you selling your Leave back to your Employer? Are you 100% that if it was EU law that the UK hasn't added embellishments of their own to it?

It's been a blardy good excuse for the UK Govts to blame the EU for their own actions.

That might just be a slight bonus of Brexit, assume we stay out for ten years and the excuse "the EU won't let us" wont wash anymore. And even if the excuse is trotted out "We are still following EU law" the answer will be "Why? You felt strongly, why haven't you changed it?"

It's been a very tiring few days, so I may be missing sth.

Louise, are you suggesting that commuters should all climb into their individual cars and drive to work, so that freight goes on trains and then into vans, and that that will help reduce CO2 emissions?

PMK thank you Red & all contributors

Perhaps Louise is just brainstorming (not a politically correct term now) and tossing out ideas. The thing is, you have got the wrong Government for half of your ideas. Try thinking up some ideas which will help the already rich enrich themselves further, and you might find your ideas get implemented.

Not really Auld I am suggesting that those commuters who have found out during COVID have found out how unnecessary it is for them to commute shouldn't start doing it again (especially not just because Govt adverts start telling them they must)

but the rest of your summation was right, yes, so that freight goes on trains and then into vans, and that that will help reduce CO2 emissions :-)

Louise
so that freight goes on trains and then into vans
This is where you lost me.

22000 lettuces come in to the rail yard on a container from Spain.
34000 turkey breasts come into the rail yard from a packing plant in Norfolk.
24000 kilos of spuds come in from Scotland
11000 ready meals come in from Birmingham
10000 carrier bags come in from Billingham

How do they get into the right van for each shop?
WITHOUT the huge distribution centres that take the bulk loads off the pallets and split them down to individual boxes for each shop

And where - at the rail heads - are you going to build duplicates of what already exists ?

I haven't thought through every detail Listening I am as somebody else suggested just throwing stuff out there to an extent. My point was a more general why not at least try something different?

If retailers need to use there existing distribution centres then get the rails to them or as close to them as possible. Tesco's Distribution Centre in Dagenham, to give an example, is 2.5 miles from Dagenham Dock station according to Google.