Westminstenders: Run Forrest Run

[RedToothBrush]

Need i say more?

It has certainly moved forward in that we do not just debate whether or not Brexit is a good idea - we accept that for better or worse, it is happening

this is the bit people simply aren't getting. It's happened. Like the brake being released on a car at the top of a hill. The UK has moved past it. (Out of control and gathering pace, admittedly.)

Toptotoe, so "moving forwards" includes normalising risks to supply of vital medications - have I understood you correctly?

Peregrina is not unique. She is simply one of many people in the UK today who have genuine concerns about the future availability of medication required to keep her, or someone close to her, alive. That's not my definition of 'progress'.

Did I say that? Echo chamber 101. Well done.

I had a lot more confidence in Parliament when it was able to hold the government to account. A majority this big and a government bent on trumpian policies scares me

... looks remarkably like the 1530s

Trust was lost in parliament.

So now we have a PM who doesn't lead, who ignores his MPs, never mind the Opposition, and kow tows to an unelected SPAD.

OK we've moved on, but moving on in the wrong direction is not a good way to go.

Toptotoe, putting supply of medication at risk unnecessarily doesn't strike me as progress (or sensible, desirable or justifiable). That's why I wanted to check my understanding.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Toptotoe, putting supply of medication at risk unnecessarily doesn't strike me as progress (or sensible, desirable or justifiable). That's why I wanted to check my understanding.

I think it would depend on your definition of "progress". For some it's fewer dark faces to hell with medication. For others it was bragging rights to UK sovereignty (to hell with medication). For yet others it was blue passports (to hell with medication). Shake the snowglobe once more, and for others it was something (not quite sure what) about banana. And to hell with medication.

There appears to be a pattern emerging here.

Topto again with the specious argument. First, the Tory manifesto was not written as part of a democratic process. Second, even if you read it from first to last page, the vast majority of those who voted Tory did not read that document. So the electorate did not vote for the manifesto and ipso facto that manifesto is not 'democratic' and it is disingenuous to say it was.

Less than 50% of the electorate voted for Johnson and his oven ready deal (many of the new Tory MPs were entirely unknown quantities).Somehow I don't think you will see that as anti-democratic.

In any event, the Tories are now ditching elements of their own manifesto. Is that anti-democratic? Are you outraged that they are doing so?

If you are all for inviolate rule of the electorate and that our elected representatives must reflect the views of those they represent, then will you agree that it was reprehensible that so many Tory MPs voted against the wishes of their electorate e.g. by voting for leaving for no deal last year despite coming from consitituencies that had predominantly voted Remain. Surely that was anti-democratic.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2019/mar/27/how-did-your-mp-vote-in-the-indicative-votes#table

Anyhow, I understand that everything Johnson's government does is democratic so there is really little to be gained by having this debate.

I have my popcorn and gin
still waiting for our new visitor to clarify whether they want WTO or sanity

I'm starting to think that progressing towards the end of transition is all that matters, NOT what state the UK will be in afterwards.

(Hope Toptotoe comes back to comment on DGR's interpretation of their post.)

The end of Transition is just a fork in the road
which way we turn afterwards (WTO / SM) is the absolute key.
There can be no progress until the UK realises
Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on
until 11pm on December 31st

LQ you are so right. How can us mere mortals influence that decision though?

ICould
We never could.
The Government took the wrong step years ago
even on the two massive marches in London it was fun but futile

Sadly we have to look after ourselves in the run up to the end of the year
because our elected representatives have abdicated responsibility
to the strange brain of Dominic Cummings

I think I might start a band. We’ll call ourselves ‘The Remoaners’ and our first album will be entitled ‘The Strange Brain of Dominic Cummings’

Queen

(or even Demonic Cummings, as someone recently posted?)

trying to work out how to get the Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus into the thread

Tomorrow is another month.
The start of this one was not got for several of us on these threads
but hopefully
The only way is up

Oops, I did it again

@ListeningQuietly

The end of Transition is just a fork in the road which way we turn afterwards (WTO / SM) is the absolute key. There can be no progress until the UK realises Yes, there are two paths you can go by But in the long run There's still time to change the road you're on until 11pm on December 31st

... The UK can still change the road it is on, after 3 December

After a year on WTO terms - or maybe just a few months if Kent is logjammed & there are goods shortages -
and seeing the kind of demands and restrictions with a US FTA, the UK may choose to accept the LPF and go for a very close deal with the EU, for maximum access

A US FTA could make that impossible, but unless the UK government just rolls over completely, it should take longer than EOY 2021 to negotiate a US FTA

31 December !

Marina Hyde - BJ's new mantra: "Leave home. Forget the NHS. Save Pret"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/28/boris-johnson-home-nhs-government-office-commute

BigChoc
A US FTA could make that impossible, but unless the UK government just rolls over completely, it should take longer than EOY 2021 to negotiate a US FTA
The USA has no interest in an FTA with the UK as we have nothing they need.
If Trump wins then nobody gets an FTA
If Biden wins then the EU will get an FTA as part of rebuilding western solidarity against Xi

Either way a 2021 UK will be an isolated place
and yes, Kent will become Motorway City unless an SM deal is signed PDQ

It's interesting that only some manifesto promises must be kept. The Tory manifesto promise to give me back my vote was certainly not kept!

tbh I'm surprised to see so much Tory activism on here, as the great British public and most especially the Mumsnet population no longer has any interest in Brexit. Even the preppers don't care any more.

I'm surprised Clav had the time to spare from urging on the return to school on so many threads,
or is it now back to politics as usual ?

(I'm actually very much in favour of prioritising keeping ft schools going if at all possible, even if we had to stop all non-essential WoH this winter)

I was going to post but it got swallowed somewhere so apologies if it suddenly appears twice.

An FTA with the USA would likely be very one sided - we take their chlorinated chicken and hormone reared beef and they cherry pick the bits of the NHS that they can make a profit on, and in return the UK sells a few bottles of Scottish Whisky. In which case, what would happen if Scotland became Independent?

Ah we can add another string to the bow of the Johnson government support for democracy.

Opposition parties have condemned Conservative proposals to abolish or significantly revamp the Electoral Commission

The government’s advisory body the Committee on Standards in Public Life is currently holding a review of electoral regulation. In a submission to the process, the Conservatives said the commission should not be given new powers of prosecution, saying this would bring “too many conflicts of interest”.

Although it feels rather that the government is ready and willing to hold a grudge and silence those institutions that are meant to and have tried to hold held them to account. The judiciary, the press, now the Electoral Commission. Any bets on whose next? But always let's celebrate them as the bastions of democracy. Slavery is freedom after all...