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Brexit

Westministenders: Can you tell your Rs from Elbows?

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2020 19:38

This week Mark Sedwill has resigned (or was he pushed?) and David Frost (chief brexit lead) was appointed National Security Adviser in a move that enraged Theresa May. The former prime minister felt that his appointment was unprofessional and that was a political appointment not an independent one and that he lacked experience. Of course in terms of national security we still haven't had that report on Russia and I don't believe The Intelligence and Security Committee has yet been named (not sat since Johnson was appointed as PM).

We have passed the deadline for extending transition and we have now apparently said that negotiations on the end of transition will finish at the end of September.

The bill ending Free movement of people has been signed, amongst much fanfare by the Conservatives saying they have delivered on the Referendum promise. However we might have up to 3million Hong Kongers who we are willing to allow into the country which might not go down too well with those who were unhappy with 'unrestricted EU immigration'.

We also have the demonstration of utter incompetence, outsourcing and lack of coordination and communication from central government and local government in the covid-19 crisis. A national scandal that isn't being properly reported by the press and leave you with the very large question of who is this government serving? If its contract with Deloittes over testing didn't require them to report positive tests to Public Health England, what was the point in the testing? How can this be consistent with 'The Government’s new approach to biosecurity will bring together the UK’s world-leading epidemiological expertise and fuse it with the best analytical capability from across Government in an integrated approach.' and will provide real time analysis and assessment of infection outbreaks at a community level, to enable rapid intervention before outbreaks grow.?

The growing feeling that Brexit is being exploited by this government for personal interests and those of big business at the expense of the general public is one which was feared and grows harder to argue against by the day.

OP posts:
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Clavinova · 12/07/2020 19:00

Peregrina
A certain PM can deny that TV cameras are there when they are filming him.

He said they're not "the press" - he was clearly interrupted before he could finish the sentence; "it's .... BBC News (or whoever)."

Definition of the press: the people (such as reporters and photographers) who work for newspapers, magazines, etc.

yoikes · 12/07/2020 19:05

🐿👀

yoikes · 12/07/2020 19:08

Christ on a bike...
(Loosens waistband..)
How many scones constitute an overdose do you think? 😟

DGRossetti · 12/07/2020 19:09

@Clavinova

Peregrina A certain PM can deny that TV cameras are there when they are filming him.

He said they're not "the press" - he was clearly interrupted before he could finish the sentence; "it's .... BBC News (or whoever)."

Definition of the press: the people (such as reporters and photographers) who work for newspapers, magazines, etc.

Sacked for lying.

Twice.

ListeningQuietly · 12/07/2020 19:15

@Clavinova
Kent my sweet ....
tell us how it will be wonderful

JeSuisPoulet · 12/07/2020 19:24

LQ I can help her there. I realised that we discovered a few months back that Ashford has the highest barber/head ratio in the country. They can surely set up a Trucker Spa for the hours the lorries with goods are parked up and presumably ransacked by the locals so it's really a WIN! Wink We could relieve some of that Trucker Stress with some delightful corn rows or other time consuming topiary. They may not get much done, but UK truckers will do it with style.

Clavinova · 12/07/2020 19:48

Kent my sweet...
tell us how it will be wonderful

Well, I think we will get a deal in December, but if not, remember this from last year?

"Kent County Council, working with its partners has taken responsible and timely actions to prepare for all eventualities, including a potential no-deal scenario."

"Kent has well-developed plans to ensure we minimise disruption to Kent’s residents and businesses."

"Kent’s no-deal plans have been in place since March 2019.We were prepared, if required, ahead of the previous no-deal deadline (31 March and 12 April 2019).Through close collaborative working with the Department for Transport and Kent Resilience Forum, we have a well-thought through, sensible and practical plan, “Operation Brock”, ready to go live at short notice."

"This will manage potential disruption and delay at the ports, enable Kent to hold up to 12,000 goods vehicles and, for the first time, keep all Kent roads open at all times."

"Should the 12,000 capacity be exceeded, the plan necessitates HGVs bound for mainland Europe to be held outside of the county."

JeSuisPoulet · 12/07/2020 19:52

Anyone remember my wager last week?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests Looks like I was bang on with the appx 3 months Grin Maybe I should earn my keep with a crystal ball.

Chersfrozenface · 12/07/2020 19:59

Kent County Council said "Should the 12,000 capacity be exceeded, the plan necessitates HGVs bound for mainland Europe to be held outside of the county."

So its message was "We can cope with 12,000 HGVs, through Operation Brock, but someone else is going to have to sort out any number over and above that, and not in Kent.

Has anyone sorted anything in addition to Operation Brock? Or is the new lorry corral meant to do just that. In which case, it's very much in Kent.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2020 20:18

Dmitry Grozoubinski@DmitryOpines (fmr Australian trade negotiator)

"I never thought trucks would pile up at MY border,"
weeps MP from the Trucks Piling Up at Borders Party

1/ Since this is blowing up a little,
let's talk about why this parking lot is being built and the choices (beyond holding a referendum and implementing its result)
that brought this about.

Brace yourselves ya'll, we're threadin'.

2/ "Why do we need giant truck parking lots?"

Because from the end of the transition period, trucks moving things UK-EU will need to stop and present significantly more paperwork than before.

The lots are for trucks without papers, wrong papers, or if there are queues.

3/ "Why do they need more paperwork?"

Because now the UK and EU will be two distinct trading areas, and trading areas need to know precisely what's crossing their borders, in what amounts, owned by who, driven by who, and liable for which tariffs.

That's a lot of new paper.

4/ "So they'll fill out the forms, what's the problem?"

Even if every truck is carrying perfect paperwork, that's thousands more forms that have to be processed, and thousands more confirmations happening at the port every day.

That alone could overwhelm the port's capacity.

5/ "What if the forms aren't done, or aren't right?"

That's even worse. Customs documentation is complicated, and it's not going to be something the driver can just correct with a sharpie.

They'll need to contact head office, which may need to consult the customer or an expert.

6/ "How long can that take?"

Hours, sometimes longer.
Many ports don't have room for trucks to sit idling while someone on the other end of the country corrects errors on a Rules of Origin certificate.

Ergo, you need these big parking lots.

7/ "But this was always inevitable, once Brexit was voted in, right?"

Not entirely.

First, the way the Future Relationship Agreement was done,
ruling out Customs Union membership, is what made this volume of paperwork needed.

A CU has much less paper at its internal borders.

8/ Second, the reason the HMG is frantically buying up hectares of land to put trucks in,
is because it anticipates freight operators not being ready, port processing not being ready, or both.

Not extending transition, despite a pandemic, made this far more likely.

9/ "Can electronic systems fix all this?"

They can help a lot, but they're not a magic bullet.

HMG is obviously not expecting tech to enable a frictionless end to transition.

I can tell because they just leased half of Kent. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2020 20:20

"Has anyone sorted anything in addition to Operation Brock?"

Motorways and general Kent road system can become truck overflow parking

Melassa · 12/07/2020 20:39

Did anyone read this article?. I found it quite thought provoking.

Populism - ergo Brexit and Trump and Orban etc. is the triumph of the incompetent over the competent. The bitterness of the incompetent in a meritocratic world, in particular the narcissistic incompetent with a sense of entitlement (hello Boris). They then manage to harness the same bitterness in the electorate, many of whom they despise, in order to get themselves elected and surround themselves with fellow incompetents and thus ensure that no one with any form of actual ability ever manages to get near power and unseat them.

That alone explains the current U.K. cabinet and in particular the meteoric rise of Chris Grayling

Clavinova · 12/07/2020 20:59

Ashford Borough Council
Development update
Issue 33 // November 2O19

Several planning applications here;

18/00098/AS – Waterbrook Park, Waterbrook Avenue, Sevington.
"An application for the construction of a 600-space truck stop and offices for small and medium enterprises, an outline application for employment uses; a superstore, drive through restaurants, petrol filing station, a convenience store and car showrooms with up to 400 dwellings was granted planning permission in August 2019."

Brexit: Waterbrook and Junction 10a.
^"The Waterbrook site opposite Orbital Park has been the subject of a government Special Development Order (SDO) allowing the use of
the site for customs clearance and associated lorry parking in the event of a ‘no-deal’ Brexit, up to the end of 2020.This means that the new Junction 10a will be opened to traffic in two stages–the two coastfacing slip roads and link road to the A2070 opened on 31 October 2019 with the two London-facing slip roads to be opened by the end of December 2019."^
www.ashford.gov.uk/media/8740/t-development-update-final-versions-2019-abc-development-update-2019.pdf

Customs facility at Waterbrook
Published : 11/02/2020
"Ahead of the UK leaving the EU on 31 October, the Government has been working on contingency plans and preparations to minimise the impact on the UK border."

"Part of these plans includes introducing a small number of additional locations to handle customs administration, one of them is at Waterbrook.This site has been chosen because of its proximity to the M20 and the existing capacity for lorries to park at Ashford International Truck Stop."

"Ashford Borough Council was notified about this proposal by government officials during the last couple of weeks, and council staff have been working with the Government to support their aims, while making sure Ashford’s best interests are upheld and that any impact is mitigated as much as possible."

"Due to the urgency and national need for the site to be operational by 31 October the Ministry of Housing & Local Government (MHCLG) have received and approved a temporary planning permission until the end of 2020 through a Special Development Order (SDO) under s59 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.This means the usual process of submitting a planning application to the local authority and the subsequent consultation with them is not required."

"The sites will be used for starting and ending Common Transit Convention (CTC) movements, the processing of ATA Carnets (which give permission to temporarily import or export goods) and for carrying out border readiness checks."

"The DfT also plan to use Ashford as a holding facility (known as turnaround or turn back location) for HGVs which have been through border readiness checks in Operation Brock and have been found to have incomplete border documents. Here, hauliers will have a facility to park safely and receive guidance on getting border ready.Those hauliers who follow the rules and ensure they have the necessary paper work will not be delayed or asked to go to a turnback site."

"The site would only be used in the event of a no-deal EU exit, and this use will remain under constant review."
news.ashford.gov.uk/news/customs-facility-at-waterbrook/

Not sure how many sites there are in this area, or whether the government have now chosen a different site - recent news report with photo here;

www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/several-thousand-lorries-will-be-there-itll-be-hugely-disruptive-230222/

Peregrina · 12/07/2020 21:05

Through close collaborative working with the Department for Transport and Kent Resilience Forum, we have a well-thought through, sensible and practical plan, “Operation Brock”, ready to go live at short notice."

Kent County Council must have gone to sleep then, because only yesterday or the day before they were lamenting how the Dept of Transport taking control of this land had taken them by surprise, forcing them to hand deliver notices to residents about the disruption due to start.

The MP for Ashford didn't seem to know either, but then, why should he concern himself with what the County Council do?

DGRossetti · 12/07/2020 21:28

I see the Ashford site has been dubbed "Mojo" by the developers (Guardian article).

I wonder how many people know "mojo" is Swahili for "one" ...

I wonder where "mbille" is going ?

DGRossetti · 12/07/2020 21:33

And once again, someone is shaking the sheets of history, with news tha Hagia Sophia has reverted to being a mosque ... a connection that goes unbroken to the Roman byzantine empire.

AuldAlliance · 12/07/2020 21:42

@Clavinova

Now who was it who was bragging about shaking hands with Corona virus patients?

Not in so many words - the corona virus patients were somewhere in the building.

How many more words are needed? I missed the bit where he pointed out that CV patients were elsewhere and he was cautious to avoid them:
smallaxe · 12/07/2020 21:53

[quote Clavinova]Ashford Borough Council
Development update
Issue 33 // November 2O19

Several planning applications here;

18/00098/AS – Waterbrook Park, Waterbrook Avenue, Sevington.
"An application for the construction of a 600-space truck stop and offices for small and medium enterprises, an outline application for employment uses; a superstore, drive through restaurants, petrol filing station, a convenience store and car showrooms with up to 400 dwellings was granted planning permission in August 2019."

Brexit: Waterbrook and Junction 10a.
^"The Waterbrook site opposite Orbital Park has been the subject of a government Special Development Order (SDO) allowing the use of
the site for customs clearance and associated lorry parking in the event of a ‘no-deal’ Brexit, up to the end of 2020.This means that the new Junction 10a will be opened to traffic in two stages–the two coastfacing slip roads and link road to the A2070 opened on 31 October 2019 with the two London-facing slip roads to be opened by the end of December 2019."^
www.ashford.gov.uk/media/8740/t-development-update-final-versions-2019-abc-development-update-2019.pdf

Customs facility at Waterbrook
Published : 11/02/2020
"Ahead of the UK leaving the EU on 31 October, the Government has been working on contingency plans and preparations to minimise the impact on the UK border."

"Part of these plans includes introducing a small number of additional locations to handle customs administration, one of them is at Waterbrook.This site has been chosen because of its proximity to the M20 and the existing capacity for lorries to park at Ashford International Truck Stop."

"Ashford Borough Council was notified about this proposal by government officials during the last couple of weeks, and council staff have been working with the Government to support their aims, while making sure Ashford’s best interests are upheld and that any impact is mitigated as much as possible."

"Due to the urgency and national need for the site to be operational by 31 October the Ministry of Housing & Local Government (MHCLG) have received and approved a temporary planning permission until the end of 2020 through a Special Development Order (SDO) under s59 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.This means the usual process of submitting a planning application to the local authority and the subsequent consultation with them is not required."

"The sites will be used for starting and ending Common Transit Convention (CTC) movements, the processing of ATA Carnets (which give permission to temporarily import or export goods) and for carrying out border readiness checks."

"The DfT also plan to use Ashford as a holding facility (known as turnaround or turn back location) for HGVs which have been through border readiness checks in Operation Brock and have been found to have incomplete border documents. Here, hauliers will have a facility to park safely and receive guidance on getting border ready.Those hauliers who follow the rules and ensure they have the necessary paper work will not be delayed or asked to go to a turnback site."

"The site would only be used in the event of a no-deal EU exit, and this use will remain under constant review."
news.ashford.gov.uk/news/customs-facility-at-waterbrook/

Not sure how many sites there are in this area, or whether the government have now chosen a different site - recent news report with photo here;

www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/several-thousand-lorries-will-be-there-itll-be-hugely-disruptive-230222/[/quote]
You didn't bother checking on those planning permissions then?

They relate to the field next to the truckstop site here: goo.gl/maps/WjfT5ThmxykwFk6J9

The new site is the much larger (8 times?) area of the two large dark fields to the north-east and the land between there and the A2070.

SwedishEdith · 12/07/2020 21:58

I just noticed that Ashford is on the list of places at risk of local lockdowns. That would stop the work for a while, I suppose.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/11/revealed-20-areas-at-most-risk-of-local-lockdowns

SabrinaThwaite · 12/07/2020 22:03

I wonder how many people know "mojo" is Swahili for "one" ...

They won’t because it isn’t.

Moja is the Swahili word for one.

SwedishEdith · 12/07/2020 22:03

This from Anne Applebaum is worth reading.

Applebaum let out a snort that must have been heard for miles around her Polish home when I mentioned the journalist and author David Goodhart’s pro-Brexit formulation that we are living through an uprising by the “people from somewhere” against the “people from nowhere” – a modern variant on the old communist condemnations of “rootless cosmopolitans”, incidentally. It’s a war of one part of the elite against another part of the elite, she says. Brexit was an elite project. “The game was to get everyone to go along with it”. Were all the southern Tories who voted for it a part of the oppressed masses? “And who do you think funded the campaign?”

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/12/anne-applebaum-how-my-old-friends-paved-the-way-for-trump-and-brexit

Peregrina · 12/07/2020 22:35

What then are Kent residents getting up in arms about, if it's all been planned for months?

JeSuisPoulet · 12/07/2020 23:05

Swedish yes, Ashford is at risk of local lockdowns, plus Folkestone and I suspect Dover (poor area). Could be very problematic but I suspect the workers will have to ignore lockdown, being keyworkers.

I forget if we have seen figures for funding for all of this work? Kent is certainly starting to buckle after austerity IMO and I suspect some louder noises will be made on this if there isn't real govt funding for infrastructure rather quickly.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 12/07/2020 23:37

smallaxe I see from that link that the site is adjacent to the hospital (and also that the motorway slips are closed right now). I'm sure the proximity to the hospital of 10,000 confused truckers a day won't be any problem at all.

mathanxiety · 13/07/2020 07:35

People, and especially young people still attend parties, but not necessarily COVID parties.

A party with no social distancing and no masks can safely be assumed to be a covid party.

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