Anyone changed their mind re Brexit since Covid 19?

[LOVELYDOVEY05]

I wondered if this issue has influenced you at all? I think I am changing my mind

Your not to worry, maybe Bobby will walk out of the shower and the whole thing will just be a dream that Pam had.

*Whether you like it or not, CV proves the EU is still basically a trading bloc, its control over the nation state is very limited.

You've been conned if you have believed otherwise*

This for.me is the strongest evidence of the spuriousness of the Brexit- arguments . It is laughable ( if it weren't so tragic) that the argument that the EU has unacceptable political power and too much political control over its member countries is made by the same people and at the same time as saying the EU has been useless about Covid.

The EU is a trading block and had very little chance of being anything else . All the.hyoerbole about their supposedly controlling influence on our laws and political system was paranoia or misplaced anger about our government that should rightfully have been directed to our political system.

I voted remain and still would. At the time I thought lots of structural and employment issues were and are down to government policy and we will now have less to moderate exploitation of workers via pseudo self employment zero hours and the like.

Too late now obviously but I think we'll look back in 10 years and regret it. Hope I'm wrong though.

bumblingbovine49

Do you know if this matter has been resolved yet?

"A legal battle is brewing in the EU over a judgement earlier this week [May] in Germany, and the EU's top court has fired back."

"In a statement, the Head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen said the commission will now analyse the German court ruling and look into possible steps, which "could include the option of infringement proceedings."

"She added, the "final word on EU law is always spoken in Luxembourg. Nowhere else."

"Germany's Constitutional court ruling on May 5, which took aim at the European Central Bank's mass bond-buying scheme, had wider implications for the European Court of Justice (ECJ), the top legal authority of the bloc."

"The ruling related to government debt worth €2.1 trillion purchased by the ECB starting in 2015 (so-called quantitive easing).The court said that there was not enough political oversight in the buying scheme."

"The ECJ responded on Friday that they "consistently held that a judgment in which the Court gives a preliminary ruling is binding on the national court." Indeed, the ECJ ruled in 2018 that government bond purchasing was legal."

"The press release went on to state that the court was the only authority with jurisdiction to rule whether or not an act of an EU institution is contrary to EU law.This was to 'ensure that EU law is applied uniformly'.

"The release went further to state that divergences between EU country's courts 'would be liable to place in jeopardy the unity of the EU legal order'."

"Germany's constitutional court said the ECJ had effectively overstepped its authority, accusing them of acting 'ultra vires' (beyond their powers) in the 2018 ruling."

"However, the European Commission already reaffirmed the 'primacy of EU law' and the fact that all ECJ rulings are 'binding on all national courts'."

"Concerns were raised over Germany's ruling in Brussels, that it could set a dangerous precedent if national courts could overrule the EU's top court."

www.euronews.com/2020/05/08/eu-s-top-court-fires-back-over-german-ecb-ruling-as-primacy-of-eu-law-comes-into-play

I'm still definitely pro Leave.

But at the same time I think covid has shown us that we need much better control over our food and medicine, especially PPE. Many of these industries are strategic and should be protected.

you import over 50% of your food. The EU sourced PPE as a bloc and it worked out well, Britain were invited to join in but declined. we saw the result (counting gloves as individual pieces to bump up the numbers)

For the Brexiters the COVID-19 crisis has probably been the best thing ever because whatever happens after Britain has finally pushed off into the great blue (white and red) yonder will be blamed on that.

I haven't changed my mind at all. I didn't get a vote but i would have voted remain. Now I just want you gone so we can get on and rebuild after Covid-19. Handled well in so many EU countries, in particular the one I'm in.

Definitely still a remainer. Think the UK going it alone has been a disaster. Saying no thanks to being part of the EU's PPE procurement programme due to Brexit pride must be one of the lowest points of the pandemic handling (and Lord knows the have been many) and surely caused extra challenges for NHS staff at the early stages back in March. On every occasion the UK had the chance to move swiftly and decisively they dithered until it was too late. Quarantine in June, anyone? The UK is not up for going it alone I think is what this has shown. Of course I suspect that Brexiters will have picked up on other news and become more convinced than ever that Brexit is they way forward. No one likes to admit they were wrong even if facts are staring them in the face.

Yes, I know. The master got settled. Bond buying was legal. German politicians said so. Move along, nothing to see here.

I voted remain and am even more fervently in favour of the EU after watching this Tory/Brexit party and their corrupted actions. How anyone can still stand by a vote to leave makes me despair. If only it could be that leavers could get the brunt of what awaits come January. As if good old British pluck is going to save us from food shortages, chemical laden shit food from USA, tax payer's money being funnelled to Cummings and his mates etc. Like I said, I despair.

But at the same time I think covid has shown us that we need much better control over our food and medicine, especially PPE.

We already had control! The PPE problem was that the stocks went out of date and the government chose not to replenish them, there was no money in the pot due to austerity and the massive debt this country is in. The debt is still going up and up. Then when the EU tried to include us in ordering stocks the government ignored their email - they were too busy trying to desperately sort out brexit. In fact I blame the focus on brexit for the complete incompetence in the early stages and the late lockdown which has cost so many lives and made is the worst performing in Europe.

And food - most of our cheap salad comes from Spain - are we willing to go without during winter?
Or pay massively more due to the energy costs of growing salad at home?

Are we willing to eat all the fish and seafood we catch that is currently exported because the British don’t like it?

When we had fishing rights in our own waters we (mainly England) sold half of them.

Will we have control over our medicine and food standards when we’re so desperate to sign a deal with the US?

The economic breakdown of COVID will hide what would have been down to brexit anyway, it’ll be hard to distinguish what’s had the worst impact. But no I haven’t changed my mind.

The EU has little if any influence on our criminal justice system.

I’ll just preface this to say what swings my vote is what I see before me in real life, I take the media with a pinch of salt. One of the reasons I voted leave...as part of my job I had to support a man who was one of the worst human beings I had ever met. Gouged someone’s eyes out with his thumbs and got sent down for that amongst other atrocious things. Honestly he made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and was just vile and full of hatred. Anyway , he had been handed an IPP which I believe the EU forced us to abolish so he was released. So it seems they do indeed influence our CJS. I believe they also gave prisoners the vote? Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.

Saying no thanks to being part of the EU's PPE procurement programme due to Brexit pride must be one of the lowest points of the pandemic handling (and Lord knows the have been many) and surely caused extra challenges for NHS staff at the early stages back in March.

"A senior civil servant has said he was wrong to claim the UK took a "political decision" not to join an EU scheme to source medical equipment."

"The Foreign Office's Sir Simon McDonald told MPs that ministers were briefed on "what was on offer" but said "no"."

"But he later retracted his comments, saying he had "wrongly" told MPs that ministers had been briefed on the scheme."

"He said the UK did not receive an invitation to join the scheme because of "communication problems"."

However, numerous sources state that no PPE, ventilators or testing kits were delivered through the EU procurement schemes as at 21st/22nd April;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52369916

"The EU started to coordinate the process of purchasing personal protective equipment (PPE), testing kits and ventilators at the end of February.The joined effort helps to reduce costs when negotiating with manufacturers."

"The first scheme, to purchase masks, was launched on 28 February."

In fact, the first joint procurement tender was unsuccessful - no contracts were awarded.

12/03/20 -Tenders Electronic Daily (TED) − the European public procurement journal;

"No tenders or requests to participate were received or all were rejected"

ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:119976-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

10th July - "Has any equipment been distributed?"

The only definitive date in this BBC article is June;

"Latvia's order for 25,000 goggles and 100,000 surgical masks was delivered in June."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52380823

This didn't help -

6th March;

"France has forced a face mask manufacturer to cancel a major UK order as the coronavirus-inspired scramble for protective gear intensifies."

"The National Health Service ordered millions of masks from Valmy SAS near Lyon earlier this year as COVID-19 threatened."

"We are facing a big problem: who to prioritise" explained company director Nicolas Brillat."The requisition does not allow any wiggle room for us to deliver to the NHS, but it is complicated because the NHS was the first client to order and uses our masks all year long."

www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-french-protective-mask-manufacturer-scraps-nhs-order-to-keep-masks-in-france

@MellowBird85

The EU has little if any influence on our criminal justice system.

I’ll just preface this to say what swings my vote is what I see before me in real life, I take the media with a pinch of salt. One of the reasons I voted leave...as part of my job I had to support a man who was one of the worst human beings I had ever met. Gouged someone’s eyes out with his thumbs and got sent down for that amongst other atrocious things. Honestly he made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and was just vile and full of hatred. Anyway , he had been handed an IPP which I believe the EU forced us to abolish so he was released. So it seems they do indeed influence our CJS. I believe they also gave prisoners the vote? Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.

You are wrong. The ECHR is not the EU. The failure of the justice system in the UK to deal properly with IPP prisoners is nothing to do with the EU at all.

No. Still a Brexiter.

@hammie46i

No. Still a Brexiter.

Looking forward to medicines shortages?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/04/uk-warns-drug-firms-to-stockpile-in-case-of-brexit-disruption?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I didn't vote, but I probably would have voted remain (weakly.)

However, those who will be campaigning for Rejoin - I think it will be a hard sell if we have to sign up for the euro, no rebates etc.
I can't see that being popular tbh.

Still a Remainer and nothing I've seen on this thread has persuaded me that there are any benefits to Leave at all. I am dreading January 1st and how things will be afterwards.

I believe the forthcoming WTO cliff edge Brexit with Covid will be a massive challenge. Not sure if the UK economy is fortified enough to weather both simultaneously. What is the alternative or get out of jail card? Ideally hypothetical there will be a new multinational best friends with benefits club. Within that club along with UK would be G7 plus South Korea, Australia, Spain, Taiwan, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Israel, New Zealand, Norway, and UAE.

I would vote remain if realistically Covid and Brexshit WTO cliff edge but preferably Brexit if my fantasy above multinational best friends with benefits club!

I voted Leave and would do so again.

But I think your going to have to wait many decades to rejoin, and even then it won't be as it is now

I honestly don't think the EU will exist by then.

Ah, the old "EU is about to break up" argument

I think the UK is more likely to break up

Weren't all the others going to vote to Leave after we had voted for Brexit? It seems it hasn't worked like that so far.

I voted to leave and haven't changed my mind. I'm not overjoyed at the way the bigger EU countries have treated the weakest in the group when it comes to bailing them out after Covid, very poor. I also have to say that the fisheries thing has nothing to do with the amount of our GDP it creates against other business sectors. It has to do with control and how we manage our own fishing waters. The government is not saying EU boats can't fish, it is saying we want to control how many come and how much they catch not the EU. Also if we have more control then very likely more UK boats will fish.

@Doubletrouble99

So do tell who has bullied who in light of COVID?