Anyone changed their mind re Brexit since Covid 19?

[LOVELYDOVEY05]

I wondered if this issue has influenced you at all? I think I am changing my mind

Voted Remain and as no one has put forward a good argument to Leave, i maintain that view.

CV-19 shows we need international co-operation, we can't all make/invent the drugs, PPE, equipment or provide the staff.

As for the negotiations, we want to keep sole access to UK waters AND keep access to trad fishing grounds that belong to others.
We want to keep access to the SM but no obey their rules and laws.
We want their citizens to do our farm labour and work in the NHS but wont ease any of our immigration rules and taxes for immigrants, post CV.

I voted remain and would do so again.

You just have to read a little bit on what awaits us when customs are transformed. It's going to be physically impossible to get the food that we partially rely on into the country. We don't even have capacity to produce most of the food we eat. Eg we have our own fruit and veg supplies but not for 66 million people in January. Or even in June, which I believe is when the shit really hits the fan, customs-wise.

More interesting times ahead, I guess. I am very sorry that the UK is going to inflict this on its citizens. I'm going to be ok but so so many are not.

But at the same time I think covid has shown us that we need much better control over our food and medicine, especially PPE.

I agree, but do you think the new US-UK trade deal will help us achieve this? Remember that we’re now negotiating from a vulnerable position.

I (by a hair) voted to leave, but was deeply conflicted over the decision. I thought the whole EU journey was the right thing to do, and I cast my first-ever vote in favour in 1975. But that vote was in favour of a free trade entitity. And until Mastricht in 1992, that was all it was. It enriched all of Europe.

But in Maastricht, the federalists and expansionists began to advocate eastward expansion and integration at a rapid rate and the project moved on fast. The UK, always the second largest contributor to EU funds, started to ask questions, and intelligent thoughtful people who were not part of the rush to unification and who wanted clarification of constitutional details, regular accounting updates, and approved budgets started getting cold feet but were shunted aside as "insufficiently engaged or committed."

I don't think the UK has much in common with the states that were formerly part of Yugoslavia or Albania, but locally (in Cornwall, not London) there seem to be a lot of migrant workers legally here picking vegetables and packing them, and they are welcome.

But quite frankly, I prefer the Anglo Saxon common law approach and would rather ally with Canada, Australia, New Zealand even though they are further distant because we share cultural similarities and our legal expectations of fairness are bettter aligned.

Apologies for the essay.

*Cattenberg

But at the same time I think covid has shown us that we need much better control over our food and medicine, especially PPE.*

Thought we were now faced with having to accept chlorine chicken and hormone beef?

I voted remain as I thought leaving was a massive act of self harm and a complete betrayal of millions of migrants, both EU and Brtish. But now? I think not seeking an extension is criminal and a complete abdication of duty from our government. The brexit stockpiles of medicines? Gone! The brexit stockpiles of food? Gone! The food industry are warning that panic buying shortages seen recently are nothing compared to what we'll see if we leave with no deal.

Definitely wanted to remain and would campaign to rejoin.
Sad that the Brexiteers can blame Covid and hide the extent of the damage leaving will cause.
Even farmers are beginning to realise the difficulties it is going to cause.

I honestly can’t believe that anyone thinks Brexit is a good idea. We thought some delayed deliveries during the ‘stockpiling’ at the start of Covid was bad. It’s going to be even worse when we leave.

@ComDummings, I did not at any point, think it was a good idea but I decided Brexit was a better idea than giving Albanian and etc mafiosos free access. I would rather decide who is able to live here than to admit anyone on a whim. I believe fervently, that a sensible society ONLY admits the migrants they want.

There's another thread on MN about implicit racism suggested by posting the Union Jack. I would respectfully suggest that if you have decided the UK offers the society you want to live in, then you accept it, and don't try to rewrite the rules to suit yourself immediately.

But in Maastricht, the federalists and expansionists began to advocate eastward expansion and integration at a rapid rate and the project moved on fast. The UK, always the second largest contributor to EU funds, started to ask questions,

Let us not forget that It was the Tory Government of the time which pushed for the eastward expansion. Possibly to take them out of the orbit of Russia.

What is this anglo saxon law that we have? Scotland for a starter has its own legal system, more aligned to the Dutch system, I believe.

As for we have more in common with Australia, New Zealand and Canada - ah well wouldn't it be lovely to resurrect the white parts of the Commonwealth. That must be what you are saying because I am pretty sure that few of us have blood links with the indigenous people of any of those nations.

Albania isn't in the EU, but did apply to join. However, it has become a member of NATO. Should 'Albanian mafiosi' be a part of that?

THe Albanian gangsters are already here
fighting it out with the Russians and the Ukranians in the west London property and drugs markets

Despite none of those countries being part of the EU. Oh dear, oh dear.

You are imputing that I want a white society, I think, and nothing could be further from my mind. My attititude is that i PREFER Anglo Saxon law -- in which one has to be proved guilty, than charged with a crime, to defend.

I had not considered your second point until you raised it, but from the very little I know about Dutch law. it seems not a million miles distant from common sense,which is IMVHO the rule that the man on the Clapham omnibus might apply.

Lovely, Peregrina, so how would you play this one, given the imperfections of the world? and your wish for everyone to be able to live in Europe?

I rather think you don't really know what you are talking about, the giveway being that you did not realise or remember that we don't have a United Kingdom legal system. Anglo-Saxon law was more akin to Scandinavian law, but then we had the Norman Conquest in 1066.

@daytripper always one isn't there that has to put others down for not thinking same as them
Many intelligent people voted brexit as well for various reasons there are two sides to it

I remain a remainer

I doubt very very much whether everyone would wish to live in Europe. Nor did I say that they would.

As an example: the latest Hong Kong demonstrations - the British Government's approach is to allow those entitled to British overseas passports to come here, but one commentator said, why aren't they doing more to help us in the country which is our home?

Mind you, the British Government of the time, made damn sure that the British passport holders of HK weren't entitled to come here.

So our system is a blend; I get that. I got it in the 1970s, as a student. Apply your thought process to now, please. Take your time, it's not a topic you should have a knee jerk reaction to.

I am not a lawyer, probably already evident to you., but we do have a reasonable, and mostly fair, legal process. Or do you say otherwise? In which case, why are supporting it?

@XingMing Confused.com What has a legal system based on things that may or may not have happened 100s of years ago, relevant to staying in the EU ?

Our system is hardly without its faults and is governed by precedent, which can and does change.

The EU has little if any influence on our criminal justice system.

That's not the view that much of the population share, jasjas.

I am pointing out to you that the United Kingdom does not have a single legal system. Which you had clearly forgotten or did not know. You are not alone, the Government falls into the same trap.

You had also appeared to have forgotten that it was Major's Government which led the push for the eastward expansion that you don't like.

Nor could I see why you brought Albania into the equation. In 1992 they had not long been rid of a particularly unpleasant dictator.

I do remember Hoxha, and there was nothing to like. And I have already said that the UK has borrowed bits from different legal sytems, over 600 years, and its a better system for it.

In some respects we all rationalise our decisions. The only reason I would have voted Leave would have been to give Cameron a kick in the teeth. For me what swung my Remain vote was the Good Friday Agreement - a hard won agreement, ending years of bloodshed. This was worth preserving. Nothing I have seen of the UK Government's actions since then has made me regret that vote - although I think May tried harder with the NI issue than Johnson has done.