Westministenders: The Truth Isn't A Made Up Concept

[RedToothBrush]

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

Not George Orwell but often attributed to him. But a powerful statement with resonance nonetheless

LBJ did indeed beg Wilson to send a bagpipe band just for show, anything, but he knew conference would have his arse if he did and so refused.

There were rumours of Brits in SE Asia operating as Australian SAS, and we did send SRN6 hovercraft to the Mekong Delta for evaluation.

The more relevant point is that UK quietly and effectively won both of its Vietnams, Malaya in the 50s and Borneo in the 60s, thanks to intelligent hearts and minds campaigns and good honest footslogging in the Chindit tradition.

The aphorism about the American war in SE Asia is the fact that the Yanks were sure they were bound to win because they were living on steaks and cold beer helicoptered into the jungle whereas the VC were managing on cold rice out of a bicycle inner tube. The VC for their part were sure they were going to win for exactly the same reason.

Vietnam - casts a long shadow

The Ken Burns docu was so so sad. Successive US presidents knowing they could not win but sending more and more troops in.

And Nixon was a traitor - no two ways about it. Interesting how that fact got quietly lost since it was proven (2015 ?).

Of course, looking back to those times, it was the Chaney murders in Mississippi which sparked a national outrage and allowed LBJ to ram the civil rights laws through.

History doesn't repeat itself. But it sure does rhyme.

We might like chlorinated chicken.
With a good sauce maybe but on its own it tastes of nothing
US food is quantity over quality

With that goes poor animal welfare conditions. This is what saddens me most. The British have in some ways pioneered better animal husbandry, and indeed I have seen Brexiters using continental veal rearing practices as a reason why we must leave the EU. So now we are going to chuck our welfare standards out.

The more relevant point is that UK quietly and effectively won both of its Vietnams Malaya in the 50s and Borneo in the 60s, thanks to intelligent hearts and minds campaigns and good honest footslogging in the Chindit tradition.

If by hearts and minds you mean counter-insurgency techniques and the odd imperialist massacre.

the Yanks were sure they were bound to win because they were living on steaks and cold beer helicoptered into the jungle
and that was back when US steak had some flavour !

Government ready to open British markets to chlorinated chicken for US trade deal

and Truss's 10-year plan will force UK farmers to drop to US standards

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.html

Trump administration has told UK issue is important to American interests
< so bugger UK interests >

But under the so-called “dual tariff” system being looked at,
American agribusiness would be allowed to sell goods in the UK even if they were not complying with the same production standards as British farmers – as long as they pay a tariff.

Some ministers, such as right-winger Liz Truss, want to go further, the Daily Telegraph reports
– and gradually reduce these tariffs to zero over 10 years, giving farmers time to adjust to the new normal.

Why does she want to put British farmers out of business? Are there backhanders going on?

To turn everyone vegetarian?

The 10 years is intended to force them to adopt USA practices

There is a trend for more affluent families to go vegetarian or low meat atm anyway.

I know of several that are already doing it strictly and a few who are significantly reducing their meat consumption.

It's a bit like the next generation of people who were into organic farming. It's not driven by animal welfare as a top priority but by climate change concerns.

I can only see this being a growing trend which will further squeeze farmers as well as a race to the bottom with welfare.

Good farmers don't want to compromise animal welfare which is the sad thing. And you lose traditional good practice skills forever which protect the environment as well as animals too.

However, it is doubtful that UK farms can - or wish to - compete on a race to the bottom wrt animal welfare and hygiene

They probably can't compete on scale and get the same cost savings anyway

The massive USA farms are basically factory farms with several 100,000 cattle etc treated as units of production

I read that the US chlorine treatment on poultry afterwards causes high rates of illness among workers

Puts me in mind of Upton Sinclair’s The jungle which played a large part in making me a socialist.

Liz Truss was appallingly incompetent as Early Years Minister. Whoever put her anywhere near Brexit trade negotiations knew exactly what they were doing - and they weren't doing it for UK interests.
She will just nod anything through.

Importing US agriproduce (and presumably Monsanto seeds too, which is an enormous can of worms) will be a massive issue for Northern Ireland/Ireland.

Importing US agriproduce (and presumably Monsanto seeds too, which is an enormous can of worms) will be a massive issue for Northern Ireland/Ireland

As long as it would be the right thing for the island of Ireland, if it reunited, I would love to see Cameron and Johnson as the pair who who's claim to fame in history was smashing up the United Kingdom. Very typical of Bullingdon boys though.

I would leave May out of it; I think she was genuinely trying to consider the good of NI and not just because she depended on the DUP.

I wonder who did Alok's test

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/04/almost-30000-invalid-uk-coronavirus-tests-had-to-be-redone

Tens of thousands of Britons had to be retested for coronavirus after the government sent their swabs to the US.

Nearly 30,000 tests were found to be invalid after being flown out following problems at a UK laboratory last month.

The 29,500 voided tests were among a batch of 67,000 sent to the US following technical issues at the privately run Randox laboratory in Northern Ireland.

It emerged last month that the government had to send 50,000 tests abroad owing to processing problems in the UK.

However, it has now emerged that 17,000 more tests than previously admitted were sent to the US and that 29,500 came back void.
Samples have to be tested within 72 hours of the test being taken, which means that any delay in their processing could leave people with symptoms unsure if they have the virus.

Tory manifesto 2019:
In all of our trade negotiations, we will not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards.

Another brazen lie?

Tomorrow is the last date of (scheduled) EU Brexit talks before the end of the month.

We have to ask for an extension to transition by the end of the month if we want one.

Otherwise we are starring a no deal scenario firmly in the face.

Talks are currently deadlocked. And tbh I'm not terribly optimistic of that changing.

In time for ft school ?

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/04/nhs-track-and-trace-system-not-expected-to-be-operating-fully-until-september-coronavirus#maincontent

The NHS coronavirus test-and-trace system designed to prevent a second deadly wave is not expected to work at full speed until September or October

I've been assuming all along that BJ would not ask for an extension by end June.

He would, if at all, ask in say November and piss off the EU by getting everyone scrambling to agree in time.
It would also totally bugger up those firms and orgs who prepared for No Deal - for a 2nd time -
but it would be politically v difficult for the EU to refuse even at that stage, unless really impossible logistically.

However, most likely is he won't ask, because "No Extension" is the only promise Brexit voters care about.

I've said I think the UK will probably have to experience a year of No Deal,
or Brexiter voters will forever be rebellious whingers, feeling they were cheated of their glorious "proper" Brexit

The earliest we are likely to see a second wave is probably October, but only if cases go unchecked and unmonitored.

Oh.

Shit.

Remember scientists think it took approximately 4 months from arriving in the UK to the peak in April, but it remained undetected from UK community transmission until early March.

Realistically that means November / December are going to be interesting, especially with a 31st December deadline looming over imports etc.

A second wave in the UK which isn't replicated in the EU would be devastating in more ways than one - it would effect labour availability and disaster planning. And that's without all the other possible issues.

This is a worst case scenario but we could be looking at something WORSE than no deal Brexit.

Bet you didn't imagine that at the end of last year. We thought it possible that a hostile nation could try and create trouble, but this surpasses that.

Also don't forget a no deal strategy rests heavily on US (Trump) support, and we have an election in November. And the domestic situation in the US is looking 'interesting' and we might find huge shifts in focus, massive unrest and/or a change in government.

A perfect storm of shit is potentially brewing.

I think November is going to be ONE HELL of a month...

Stock up on popcorn. (And possibly bog roll and food stuffs especially though grown in European nations)

And alcohol.

Interesting on Vietnam DGR. I thought the Burns documentary, while in depth, was ridiculously partisan in favour of liberal anti war sentiment. Far from the presidents committing people to a war they knew they couldn't win IMO too. On the contrary, I suggest it was the determination of those Presidents to prosecute only a limited war in Vietnam that resulted in the eventual outcome. Had they not taken excessive control and instead allowed the military to wage the war it wanted to, then I suggest the outcome there would have been somewhat different.