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Brexit

Westministenders: The Truth Isn't A Made Up Concept

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/05/2020 16:46

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

Not George Orwell but often attributed to him. But a powerful statement with resonance nonetheless

OP posts:
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JeSuisPoulet · 30/05/2020 21:59

Anyone else see the cap into St Andrews etc as a smack in the face for state schools in UK? I suspect it has something to do with the public schools in UK wanting to limit the riff-raff...

In other news, my friends from Suffolk are apparently coming in our direction tomorrow and want to "drop by" as they feel sorry for me having to spend lockdown with an 8 yr old alone. It's a lovely idea but they've been with 6 other families (albeit on a remote farm) and had a hairdresser in, etc. Sensible head says 'not on your nelly'. My lonely and frustrated mum head, seeing so many posts about friends social distancing and seeing parents 2 meters apart etc says 'sod it' let alone govt. advice...think I'm feeling a bit reckless after some prosecco and not worrying about a potential interview for the first time in a month. Secretly beginning to feel quite glad I will have nothing to do with this clusterfuck on my CV.

ListeningQuietly · 30/05/2020 22:03

Queen
Be thankful its half moon.
If Brambles had been exposed today it would have been surreal
but again
LOOK at the groups - they are each staying punching distance from each other
as BigChoc says
there is no story in people do sensible stuff while at the beach
yup some wazzocks jumped off the cliff
I see the helicopters
and it is around 5 a day ever summer weekend day
sometimes many more
particularly during Cowes week

mathanxiety · 30/05/2020 22:09

The Irish are not and have never been British.

Not British in terms of ethnicity, in terms of living on the eastern island of 'The British Isles', but politically, as far as citizenship went, the Irish were considered His/Her Majesty's subjects from 1801 on, and consistent and strenuous efforts were made to convince the Irish that they were joined in an Imperial brotherhood with their neighbours and betters on the other side of the Irish Sea.

This was whether they liked it or not. Those who liked it were ready to commit treason to defend their status (the Ulster Unionists in the run up to WW1 and their allies in the British Army).

One of my grandfathers, who later joined the (old) IRA was obliged to recite the following comforting rhyme in his primary school in the rural south east of Ireland, in which no Irish was taught:
"I thank the goodness and the grace
Which on my youth has smiled,
To make me in these Christian days
A happy English child"

And another that finished up with:
"Britain thou art my home, my rest,
My own land, I love thee best."

Grandad visited London once Smile.

He expressed the hope to me when I was heading to secondary school that I would learn about the geography and history of Ireland, since that opportunity has been denied to him in schools where the reading materials intentionally avoided any mention of Ireland, its landscape, traditions, history, music, or culture. If Ireland was mentioned at all it was emphasised that Ireland belonged in the British Imperial world which was glorified as the epitome of civilisation, with national differences minimised and even linguistic ties underlined. Books that were used in Irish schools for children up to age 14 were very popular throughout the Empire because of this pro-Imperial slant.

I highly recommend the book "Benefits Bestowed?: Education and British Imperialism", edited by J. A. Mangan, for a discussion of British Imperialism at work in the educational field.

DrBlackbird · 30/05/2020 23:05

Anyone else see the cap into St Andrews etc as a smack in the face for state schools in UK?

Same cap is applying to all UK universities for better or worse. An increased demand for domestic students is being anticipated for 2020-21 obvs. Russell group unis that would normally fill spaces with EU / International students are not being allowed to replace those by taking more UK students (who in regular years would be accepting a place at a non-Russell unis). My uni expecting a 50% drop in admissions.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 30/05/2020 23:13

@SabrinaThwaite

[Other than your spouse being entitled to an Irish passport for you to go down the spouse route]
Yes, exactly.
ICouldHaveBeenAContender · 30/05/2020 23:27

Re Irish vs British. Just finished reading Sean O'Casey's 6-volume autobiography and learnt just how insidious 'Britishness' / English Ness was in Ireland in the 19th and early 20th centuries, aligning with what mathanxiety's grandfather experienced. Explains a lot.

JeSuisPoulet · 30/05/2020 23:30

@squid4 I posted the same link earlier. FWIW I would quite like a job in Public Health, having spent quite a few thousand getting a degree in the subject. It seems I would be more likely to get a job in TTI using any customer relations job as background. As it happens dropping my degree from my CV and relying on EA/PA experience has recruitment companies now emailing me! Go figure...

SabrinaThwaite · 30/05/2020 23:52

@HoneysuckIejasmine

As long as you know that you’ll need to be resident on the island of Ireland for 3 years and the fees will be over €1000 to apply for naturalisation. Much easier to apply for a passport for your children if your DH already has an Irish passport.

SabrinaThwaite · 31/05/2020 00:11

^and had Irish citizenship before any children were born.

Copperas · 31/05/2020 06:46

Wasn’t Ireland conquered before Wales? By Henry II? I found this interesting as an overview www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/uniting-kingdoms/

HoneysuckIejasmine · 31/05/2020 07:09

Sabrina yep, we've looked in to the process. Smile passports in hand.

Alternatively there's always Scandinavia but we anticipate that to be much, much harder without EU membership. Of course, the Irish passport helps there too...

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 31/05/2020 08:16

Darwin Award candidates tombstoning off the top of the Durdle Door arch.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-52864454

Piggywaspushed · 31/05/2020 08:30

jesuis : my sort of shielded DF (in Scotland where they have different rules, so I am told, decided yesterday was the best day to leave the house for the first ever time, to travel 25 miles to visit his DW's relative because it was her birthday... not even sure how many other people were going to be there , or whether the journey is even technically allowed in Scotland.

For someone who is quite health anxious and has genuinely not left his own house and garden for months, this seems an odd step. He has no spleen and is 80. It seems mainly this was to get him out of my stepmum's hair (fully get why she would like that!).

I think after my barrage of questions on WhatsApp, she regretted telling me!!

prettybird · 31/05/2020 09:06

Piggy - journey itself would have been allowed in order to visit relatives but the constraining aspect is that you can't use the toilet in the place you are visiting, so you need to factor that in. My 83 year old dad peed up on the compost heap Grin You're not supposed even to walk through a house to get to a garden - so this that live in terraced houses with no rear access will have to meet the "other" household in a park/somewhere else outside.

And it's only supposed to be one other household per day (to a maximum of 8 people from the 2 households), so you were right to be concerned.

At least our rules in Scotland changed on Friday - as it would appear that many in England didn't understand that their rules only change on Monday Hmm I'm sure there will be a spike in 2 weeks Sad

SabrinaThwaite · 31/05/2020 09:12

Honeysucklejasmine We call it the get out of jail free card Smile Just kicking myself I didn’t get Irish citizenship as a spouse when it was much more straightforward, but at the time it would have meant being sacked.

Piggywaspushed · 31/05/2020 09:19

Thanks pretty. I did not know that bout the households. Will sit and stew. He won't like me ticking him off... my stepmum was also going on about wipes and how clean her niece is so it would seem a trip to house toilet was discussed. Grrr. My DF is very hale and hearty but ahs been struck down by terrible viral illnesses over the last 10 years or so which have led to hospital visits (due to the no spleen!)

Why the PM keeps announcing things on a Thursday is beyond me! Groups of teens gathered yesterday on a field near me, sort of social distancing, although I bet they weren't by nightfall! Lots of younger teens on our supposed locked up MUGA for the last few days. My area is 20th of all the authorities but , as we are not in the NE or NW, I am not sure anyone knows this.

Peregrina · 31/05/2020 09:44

Considering the racket going on outside last night, it sounded as though some neighbours were having a party.

Piggywaspushed · 31/05/2020 10:06

I find people round here noisy anyway ( a bona fide study did once show that people in the SE corner of the UK are indeed loudest!) but the 'socially distanced' shouting of my neighbours at each other and their family members 'just popping round' is doing my head in.

yoikes · 31/05/2020 10:11

SO many BBQs around here yesterday!
Multiple children on play dates.
People really do seem to have thought "fuck it"!
I've been musing that if the weather since March had been typical and not record breakingingly dry and sunny then more people would be stayed at home and fewer would have died :(
Ds2 is back to school tomorrow. He's excited. I'm still very unsure about it :(

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2020 10:18

Hands up. Who does this shock:

Gabriel Pogrund @gabriel_pogrund
Extraordinary detail in today's read by @ShippersUnbound

Boris is "fed up with the job" and "really isn't very well", per one Whitehall source

Ministers say he has been "forgetful" and remains "unsighted" on aspects of his own lockdown policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/they-are-tied-together-but-is-the-dominic-cummings-and-boris-johnson-show-over-9qgxxdlvz
They are tied together, but is the Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson show over?
The prime minister was furious at his top aide for flouting lockdown rules, yet his refusal to sack him has divided his party and flushed out rivals with leadership ambitions

OOOooohhh look a scorned Tory ex-frontbencher...
Word reached the whips that Jeremy Hunt, who lost the contest for Conservative leader last July, was phoning MPs.

“Hunt was calling around backbenchers asking what they thought,” a Tory adviser said. “He was saying, ‘I’m considering what I’m going to say.’ The perception from backbenchers was that this had leadership connotations.

Now I am aware that covid-19 affects your cognitive ability for some time, but we were saying he would get bored way before this crisis...

Westministenders: The Truth Isn't A Made Up Concept
OP posts:
Schmoody · 31/05/2020 10:54

This thread, especially the contents of the final tweet is quietly explosive.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1267024821692649472?s=19

DGRossetti · 31/05/2020 10:56

The threads had speculation over a month ago about the effect of C-19 on Johnsons ability to continue in a very stressful role. (I know, because I posted it Smile).

But that fact that the mechanisms that would have ordinarily swung into action to continue the business of government confirmed my assertion then - reconfirmed in the Time article - that the UK no longer has a functioning democracy. It's been capture by the "big man" style of government seen in North Korea, Zimbabwe, and any other list of penny-ante tinpot despot countries headed by the US.

And I use the word man very deliberately here. It's a big man system of governance. No women wanted, needed, or welcome.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 31/05/2020 11:00

"tired, irritable and struggling with detail..."

Sounds like he's made a full recovery and is back to his normal self.

QueenOfThorns · 31/05/2020 11:05

Not having a clue what’s going on and generally not being arsed to do anything sounds more like Boris being his usual self than any lingering effects of Covid-19. So, it’s unlikely there’ll be an improvement. Ever.

QueenOfThorns · 31/05/2020 11:06

Cross-post, Mockers!