Westministenders: The Truth Isn't A Made Up Concept

[RedToothBrush]

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

Not George Orwell but often attributed to him. But a powerful statement with resonance nonetheless

You’ve lost me a bit there DGR. When the PM was ill and spent time in hospital with COVID his nominated deputy (Raab) fulfilled the role of leading the government during his temporary absence.

Had the PM died, we obviously can’t know what would have happened but it would seem likely to me that his interim deputy (Raab) would have continued in the role. What were you expecting to happen?

Is this just that Raab wasn’t formally “Deputy Prime Minister” in the way that say Clegg was for Cameron or are you making some other point?

You’ve lost me a bit there DGR. When the PM was ill and spent time in hospital with COVID his nominated deputy (Raab) fulfilled the role of leading the government during his temporary absence.

I'm not going to be gaslit on this forum. By anyone. When Johnson was ill, the top level of UK government was paralysed. If you look back on the Westminstenders threads you'll see I said it then in response to specific stories. And a few posters here agreed.

To flip the question back to you, what would have happened if Raab - for whatever reason - had decided the UK needed an extension to the transition period ?

I know Raab was "in charge" but I don't recall any leadership or decision making. Just treading water until St Boris rose again.

“ I know Raab was "in charge" but I don't recall any leadership or decision making”

For which we can be devoutly thankful!

I remember a multiplicity of stories from Downing St that Boris was ill but still in charge and reading papers from red box in bed. Even when in hospital it was still 'Boris is in charge'.

“ “Hunt was calling around backbenchers asking what they thought,” a Tory adviser said. “He was saying, ‘I’m considering what I’m going to say.’ The perception from backbenchers was that this had leadership connotations.”

Told you not to take your eye off him 😊

This is probably me being a bit dim.

But why the desperation at the top over Brexit?

They won! With a thumping mandate. Johnson could airily proclaim an extension to "thrash out the fishing details" or something. Alternatively, they could go full no-deal kamakize mode and again, no-one could stop them. Heck, the ERG have admitted they never bothered to read the Withdraw Bill, so I doubt they would scrutinize the trade agreement (if there is one).

What are we not being told?

I think the rush is precisely to stop it occuring to people like the erg that they should read the deal this time.

Regarding the "big man" comments, Johnson is using Trump's playbook to rule. Unfortunately, we don't have a layer of federal government in place to actually keep things working and sane as they have in the USA. All the local councils have been cut to the bone.

If we have to chose between Raab and Cthulu for PM, I would go with the tentacles.

Technically the most senior minister after the Prime Minister is the Chancellor
so when Johnson was in hospital, Sunak should have taken over, not Raab
but even an ill Johnson could see that letting Sunak take centre stage for three weeks would cause problems
so Raab - as somebody that NOBODY likes - was chosen

The kamikaze rush towards no extension to transition and a no-deal Brexit is because they made it law that there could be no extension.

So given an extension would need to be asked for by the end of June, the Government and I use that term with reluctance would have to go back to an angry Parliament and ask them to change the law. And the Cummings' affair hasn't exactly helped.

Raab was designated caretaker PM when BJ was ill, much as his near namesake Rab Butler stood in for Churchill but was then passed over by the "Magic Circle" when they chose Eden instead who was recommended to Her Madge.

(That went well.)

Then Rab Butler was passed over again when they selected Douglas-Home, who had to renounce his peerage smartish, using the legislation which had been passed to allow Tony Benn to renounce his peerage.

That didn't go well either!

@DGRossetti

You’ve lost me a bit there DGR. When the PM was ill and spent time in hospital with COVID his nominated deputy (Raab) fulfilled the role of leading the government during his temporary absence.

I'm not going to be gaslit on this forum. By anyone. When Johnson was ill, the top level of UK government was paralysed. If you look back on the Westminstenders threads you'll see I said it then in response to specific stories. And a few posters here agreed.

To flip the question back to you, what would have happened if Raab - for whatever reason - had decided the UK needed an extension to the transition period ?

Nicely accused there, well played DGR When Johnson was ill the top level of government carried on doing what it was doing.

There was no change in strategy that I remember. I do remember lots of calls by media reps for plans to ease lockdown to be made public. Those calls were (thankfully) mostly effectively resisted by the government since the easing of lockdown was announced by Johnson himself after the resumption of his duties.

If Raab had decided seeking an extension was necessary an extension would have been sought. Clearly that didn’t happen and I think it was unlikely it was going to.

Boris is "fed up with the job" and "really isn't very well", per one Whitehall source

Not to defend him but he has been ill enough to end up in ICU. Back at work within two weeks. Who o earth thought he was well enough to do so? More likely, he went back when he could vaguely stand up but isn't well enough to do the job. Esp as being a PM in such a crisis is physica;y very demanding ( long nights, plenty of info to retain/read/learn, stressful meetings etc...).
I don't think he was physically fit to go back to office. And going back to work has just delayed his recovery even more.

I suspect this is also one reason why he didnt sack DC. If he doesnt have the capaciy to lead, he needs someone to do all the ground work for him. And that person is, even more now than before, DC.

www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/coronavirus/last-time-british-prime-minister-too-ill-to-work/

As I knew, had Tony Blair needed to relinquish his duties temporarily while in hospital, his role would have been taken on by John Prescott, not Gordon Brown.

Is this another law that doesn't apply to Dominic Cummings ?

universalcreditsuffer.com/2020/05/31/cummings-spare-
cottage-without-planning-permission-and-pays-no-council-tax/

Quite a lot of detail there.

www.finegael.ie/barniers-brexit-warnings-key-for-ireland-richmond/

Barnier’s Brexit warnings key for Ireland - Richmond - Fine Gael

31st May 2020

Fine Gael TD, Neale Richmond, has said warnings from EU Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, are key for Ireland. Deputy Richmond was speaking ahead of a key week in Brexit negotiations.

Deputy Richmond said, “There is no such thing as a good Brexit; not for Ireland and not for the EU. Even the most ardent of Brexiteers have failed to actually show how the UK will benefit from Brexit beyond aspiration.

“Michel Barnier’s warnings that the UK must keep its promises, as per the already ratified political declaration and Withdrawal Agreement, now Treaty, are key for Ireland.

“Both the EU and the UK aspire to negotiate a close and fair deal for a future relationship. Such a relationship has to be based on respecting the rules and standards of the EU’s Single Market. If someone wants to enjoy the benefits of the world’s largest economic bloc, they cannot cherry pick from it.

“A future relationship that could undermine the rules and standards of the Single Market would be disastrous for Irish exporters and businesses that compete on a global stage. Anything that would compromise and undercut the high standards is a non starter. That has been understood by all parties in these negotiations since before the Brexit Referendum.

“This is a vital week in terms of Brexit negotiations. The clock is ticking and with no sign of the UK seeking an extension, the prospect of no deal is unfortunately very real.

“Such an eventuality would be the worst case scenario for all parties and every effort should be made to avoid it. However, this requires all parties to keep their promises. Ireland in particular must be attuned to Mr Barnier’s warnings.”

Raab 'cannot remember' when he was told about the Durham jaunt - specifically whether it was before the story broke.

Yet again not credible tosh from a tory minister.

if he was told before the story broke then he wouldn't have been surprised by the story and would have remembered that at least.

if he only learnt when the story broke then he would have been surprised and again remembered that.

I also find it doubtful that if he was told before the story broke he wouldn't have had a precisely memorable WTF moment.

So the fact he wouldn't say means he knew about it.

That sounds as though it's more Cummings senior who thinks the rules don't apply to him. As they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

How utterly irresponsible can a government be to refuse an extension in the middle of a global pandemic. They're already failing miserable, why heap more shit on the already overflowing shit pile.

Completely agree, Mashed. We’re the ones who’ll suffer from No Deal but we have no way to complain.

Also:
London George Floyd protest: Hundreds of activists descend on Trafalgar Square and Parliament Square brandishing placards

It occurred to me recently - could demonstrations, marches and protests go ahead with social distancing still prevalent? But a lot of people do seem to be distancing in this clip. Often filming angles are deceptive.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/trafalgar-square-george-floyd-black-lives-matter-a4455596.html

The Guardian and Mirror would be very interested in Dominic's second home : no planning permission and not rated for council tax.
Love to see Boris try and defend that !

I can easily see Johnson getting round the lack of planning permission - it belonged to Cummings Senior therefore nothing to do with him.

Lots of reasons why a residential property on an agricultural holding might not have planning permission - permitted development rules are different for a start.

Probably not the gotcha people are hoping for.