Is the EU falling apart...?

[Frownette]

My mother seems to be convinced it is. She hasn't given a compelling reason.

And someone at the Halifax told her that it was!

Not having a plan was and is pure British incompetence it has nothing at all to do with the EU or A 50

498 MPs voted to invoke Article 50 without a plan. Whose fault was that? The voters or parliament?

The EU did not force leave voters to do anything

Who said they did?

You keep saying they knew what they voted for, the business in limbo, as was warned by the CBI, IOD and others.

They did know;

National pride (2 fingers to the EU, France and Germany in particular)

Immigration (its our country go away)

No leave vote, no article 50

Article 50 passed into EU law in December 2009 and UK was under a labour government at the time. Three years before Cameron said there would be a referendum if he was elected again

This is what I have always said would happen, is that leavers would blame the EU for every problem caused by the leave vote

Remainers arrogance more like.

Cameron arrogantly assumed remain would win. Hence no plan made.

Theresa May, also a remainer, tried to get her pay to remain in the EU deal through the back door bu hiding the legal advice.

Remainers arrogant in general as they tried from 24 June 2016 to 31 January 2020 to get the referendum result overturned because they knew better. Their attempt to thwart democracy added to the uncertainty caused by UK not leaving the EU as planned on 29 March 2019.

I wouldn't really say that May was a Remainer, more of a fence sitter, but once she'd taken on the PMs job, tried to fall in with the side which won the Referendum.

Anyway Mystery, as you have been told, Johnson and Co delayed the earlier Leave and you have got your version of Democracy.

Johnson and Co delayed the earlier Leave

Disagree. After labour achieved a falsely high number of voters in 2017 by lying about cancelling student fees it was their strategy to object to anything put forward by conservatives in the hope they could force a general election. However, when Brexit party topped the EU election in May 2019 labour stopped their push for a general election. Even when offered an election later in the year they declined.

and you have got your version of Democracy

My version is that majority vote prevails. What is your version?

See you are still blaming someone else for the results of the leave vote.

The business uncertainty it all down to that leave vote.

The stuff about May is just ridiculous, May's rdd lines played directly to the hard core leave vote, Boris's Withdrawl agreement is pretty much exactly the same as May's.

Mays deal was pay to remain. Red lines were not the reason her deal was rejected three times.

UK being locked into the EU customs union and single market forever does not represent UK leaving the EU..

Student vote in 2017 wasn't particularly higher than normal and where it did rise, was in areas already pro labour.
We don't know Labour lied as they didn't win, so could never enact that policy.

When DC said he would call a vote, i did wonder why?
The opinion polls never gave remain a strong lead, within the margin of error.

The effects on the economy are of course down to DC and May in calling a GE, a 30 seat majority could have ensured a more moderate brexit in not having to rely on the DUP hardliners... worked out well for them ...not.

The whole saga has been a lesson in how not to govern a country and with Johnson at the helm, it isn't over yet.

The more sensible europeans have seen this fiasco and by the looks of things, decided the EU is a better choice.

i didn't realise that all the EFTA countries were also in the EU... how remiss of me.

How was May's deal pay to remain? We are paying to leave under Boris's deal.

May only negotiated the back stop because the hard core leave vote in parliament initially objected to NI having any different status to the UK, they have dropped that demand now.

This is the thing, remaining in the customs union would have satisfied the vote. There are numerous ways to leave the EU.

Guardian article was times that there was a big rise in students backing labour, up to 55% of students.

Corbyn acknowledged he did not know the scale of student debt. Also backtracked later saying he did not commit to writing off debts.

As indeed arch Brexiter was quite happy to state after the Referendum result had been declared 'No one is talking about leaving the Single Market'.

We will see who falls apart and who caves in, within a matter of months now.

DUP no longer needed since Boris got a majority. Hence border in the sea for through.

He didn't say he would write off debts in thr manifesto, he said they would look at ways of "ameliorating" the debt if they were elected in an NME interview. Very different things.

Whilst there was an increase in young people voting, the biggest increases for Labour were in the 25 to 34 group.

@Peregrina

Is that a forecast to rejoin in a few months

Loving all the rehashing of water that has gone under the bridge rather than planning forwards.

We are where we are.
The EU has a clear plan of how it intends to run the next 11 months and into the future.
The UK does not.

It does not particularly matter who thought what at previous elections.
Labour lost, the Tories won. Its a Tory Brexit.
They better make it work.

@listening

Vote them out if they don’t

Vote them out if they don’t
Zac Goldsmith was voted out .... but is still in Government

any more bright ideas ?

As indeed arch Brexiter was quite happy to state after the Referendum result had been declared 'No one is talking about leaving the Single Market'.

Well, this common quotation isn't true;

Owen Paterson: 'Dear Jeremy, please stop misquoting me' -

"Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions yesterday, Mr Corbyn quoted Mr Paterson as saying "only a madman would leave the single market".

"In response the Shropshire MP wrote to the Labour leader to over the matter, which Mr Paterson said "is a very common misquotation, frequently repeated on Twitter".

www.shropshirestar.com/news/politics/2019/03/14/owen-paterson-dear-jeremy-please-stop-misquoting-me/

May's deal was pay to remain.

Johnson's deal is pay to leave, every single Euro and Cent the EU were demanding, including us paying full subs this year, and then more if we go for the extension to the extension of the extension.

it was Daniel Hannan that said no one was talking about leaving the single market, pre referendum though, as other leavers did.

Awww sorry Clav did your rush to copy and paste something mean you got it wrong, again?

@mockers

In the early days EU were looking for around £100 billion.

Reason UK pays till end of 2020 is that membership entitlement continues till end of 2020.

The EU were never looking for around £100bn, we are paying close to what the figure that was first suggested.

@malylis

Who cares. UK has left the EU and errors, if any, by posters on MN isn’t going to change that.

I sense someone is annoyed?

Farage also used to go about telling everyone that "Norway and Switzerland aren't in the EU and look how well they have done!!!!"