Is the EU falling apart...?

[Frownette]

My mother seems to be convinced it is. She hasn't given a compelling reason.

And someone at the Halifax told her that it was!

Its amusing as Clav persistently attempts to find ways to correct everyone, yet is often wrong.

it was Daniel Hannan that said no one was talking about leaving the single market

On one occasion he says, "nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market” despite saying "free market" in the same interview.The fact that the remain camp have concocted a mash up of false quotations and other quotations taken out of context (to pad out Daniel Hannan's misquote) speaks volumes to me.

maylis, correct. I was quoting Daniel Hannan. My recollection is that he was still saying this the night after the Referendum - to the utter exasperation of Evan Davies - who made remarks to the effect to Hannan that he had been campaigning to get out, and now he was going against that.

Farage yes used to extol the virtues of Norway especially, and then I think someone must have tipped him off that they had signed up to FoM and were in Schengen.

I heard Daniel Hannan's interview in it's entirety, at the time - this is no 'mash up' of false quotations.

But for winners, you are a very mardy lot.

And of course, at the time of the Referendum, a commitment to the Single Market was still part of the Tory Manifesto.

The fact that you were wrong again, speaks volumes to me.

If he used the term "free market" in the cont3xt of giving up our place in the same interview he meant single market. There is no place in a " free market" that the UK would be giving up on leaving the EU that isn't the single market, he has used the two terms interchangeably.

However your poor attempt to pass this off as something else is funny, and shows once again my points on your critical thinking abilities are correct.

Daniel Hannan did advocate staying within the Common Market (interchangeable with single) the night after the vote.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.digitalspy.com/tv/amp799120/evan-davis-brexit-clash-with-mep/

Plenty of Leave politicians & supporters from Hannon, Farage and Johnson talked up SM membership and access, inc the Norway model.

They did this to "muddy the waters" and try and bring along more moderate eurosceptics and don't knows, so it really depended on who their audience was.

Worked well.

Same three posters being reeled in again

malylis
You have to ask yourself why the remain campaigners used a false quotation from Owen Paterson, why they used quotes from Nigel Farage from 2013/14 (passing them off as 2016) and why they have edited clips from an Andrew Marr interview in 2015 (in which Nigel Farage says Norway's deal is good for Norway but not for the UK) - falsely claiming that he said he wanted a Norway deal in 2016.

Daniel Hannan did advocate staying within the Common Market (interchangeable with single) the night after the vote.

I can't get the sound to work - will have to look later (dinner to make) - your link also says;

"But Evans was having none of it and questioned:"Why did you not say in the campaign that you were wanting a scheme where we have free movement of labour. Come on, that is completely at odds with what the public think they have just voted for."

@Clavinova

Daniel Hannon,

you can watch the whole thing, because he says it using different words at the beginning, or you can go straight to the 5 minute mark.

"To repeat: Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market"

Farage did claim that Norway and Switzerland were doing well and weren't in the EU during the campaign and used them as examples of how the UK could be successful outside of the EU.

Hannan did say, on the day after the campaign about staying in the single market and as he did prior to the referendum.

The thing is, that if these people have been discussing leaving the EU for years there is years of evidence of how they represented leaving at different points.

I agree that the video wasn't entirely accurate all the time, but Farage did discuss Switzerland and Norway as examples during the campaign and others.

Oh and the leave campaign was utterly dishonest jn its representation of many things during the campaign too

Still funny that you were wrong, again.

Who exactly has used a quotation from Owen Paterson? Farage certainly said that Norway was doing OK - I don't recall there being any caveats at the time. He changed his tune when he realised that they had FoM.

I don't know why anyone bothers arguing with the post-truthers. They are just here to wind you up and waste your time. This is all very old ground; led by donkeys did a whole campaign based on documenting past lies.

WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID IN 2016
IT IS 2020 FFS

Oi, Brexiters
stop fighting yesterday's war
and explain where we go from here

You won, get over it

PigletJohn
you can watch the whole thing, because he says it using different words at the beginning, or you can go straight to the 5 minute mark.

"To repeat: Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market"

Thanks for that - very helpful.

Did anybody else notice the date of the interview in the clip? It was May 2015 - how many voters were watching this interview in May 2016?

ListeningQuietly
^WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID IN 2016
IT IS 2020 FFS^

Obviously half a dozen remain voters on this forum - who keep repeating what was said in 2016 (or rather - what wasn't said in 2016).

David Cameron's interview with Andrew Marr 12th June 2016;

"I’ll pull UK out of the single market after Brexit"

"The prime minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr show that it would be impossible to copy the Norwegian model by remaining inside the trading bloc despite being outside the EU because that would mean accepting freedom of movement and trade rules made in Brussels."

"He said the Brexit campaign had made it clear to voters that voting to leave also meant pulling out of the single market."

www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-bbc-andrew-marr-ill-pull-uk-out-of-the-single-market-after-brexit-eu-referendum-vote-june-23-consequences-news/

Who exactly has used a quotation from Owen Paterson?
People's Vote Campaign video and Jeremy Corbyn are two I have seen myself.

Did you not notice the date of the other interview were he said the same thing? 24th June 2016. Oh and in May 2015 it was clear that there would be a referendum, however as Hannan has been campaigning to leave the EU his entire political life its worth looking at what he has said over time

clav Fair point
The rejoiners need to stop rising to the bait of the astroturfer and talk about forwards
or not at all

Its being repeated Clav because it shows that there were lots of different versions of what leave would look like, and different ways to leave the EU so why trade deals can't be negotiated till a country has officially left.

Its funny how you leavers hold everything Cameron said as sacrosanct now, but also dismissed him at the time, remember WW3?

Farage had cited Switzerland and Norway as examples of successful countries outside the EU. There were more at the time

The date is irrelevant, shows Hannon is prepared to lie and/or show his ignorance.

So, in a nutshell, the EU isn't about to fold, Brexitiers have no plan (& never had one) and we are going into a uncertain world led and supported by people who haven't a clue, other than they know which news outlets not to talk too.

Oh and you've all chosen to take away advantages and rights, you've all enjoyed from your own kids.... as Tusk said "that is a special kind of stupid" or similar!
As i told a brexitier recently who is retiring early and has a camper van for next year to tour europe with, they both plan on months away or did!

Who exactly has used a quotation from Owen Paterson?

Led By Donkeys as well - just checked - they lied.

The EU certainly isn't on the verge of breaking down.

Whatever the UK's deal looks like at the end of all of this, it won't be anything like how it was described by leading leave campaigners.

"only a madman would leave the market" is what he said. The wider quote goes on to say that we will be leaving the EU but our trading position wouldn't change.

So really, he was saying that we wouldn't be leaving the single market but the EU.