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Brexit

Westministenders: Canada Plus and the Transition Phase

992 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2020 19:57

As we approach the 31st January, we slowly tick towards exit and transition.

Things are not yet signed off though the No Deal planning has quietly been stood down with no press release and the government have said they won't talk about trade deals post 31st Jan because the public are bored of them and don't understand.

The new EU president has said that the UK doesn't have time to make a full deal with the EU before 31st December with a deadline which isn't flexible.

We still have no idea what the government plans are. We still have many EU citizens feeling very vulnerable.

Perhaps we should start talking about this rather than Royals for a couple of weeks...

OP posts:
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Torchlightt · 24/01/2020 22:15

Is the Lords moving to York or wherever a punishment and attempt to shrink it and after a while get rid of it as its members don't want to bother attending so far north?

Arborea · 24/01/2020 22:17

This feels like quite a 'safe' space, so may I ask a couple of potentially stupid questions?

One is about this tweet from Jennifer Williams, a respected Manchester Evening News journalist: twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1219766023647383552

So SHE was running the doors all along (retweeting a Mirror article about Rebecca Long Bailey)

I've never come across the expression 'running the doors' before: what does it mean?

Also, a couple of days ago RedToothbrush gave a veiled warning about Keir Starmer if he were to become Labour leader: what's the issue with him?

ListeningQuietly · 24/01/2020 22:19

BigChocFrenzy Enjoy your first weekend as a pensioner

RedToothbrush By the time you are settled into your house, the story will have restarted

Torchlight the Lords will be stuck in the traffic jam on the Fulford road like everybody else

Torchlightt · 24/01/2020 22:20

If they continue with plans to:
change the constituency boundaries, in favour of the Tory party,
require passport or similar of people who want to vote,
focus nice things on marginal constituencies,
get rid of the BBC or make it toe the line even more than it does now,
do what the owners of the Mail, Express etc want them to, and so get vast amounts of free propaganda,
etc etc,
Then surely they can get away with pretty much anything? That doubled if the Labour party elect a female version of Corbyn.

ListeningQuietly · 24/01/2020 22:22

More to the point

The current UK Government has a vested interest in shutting down discussion of the nuances of Brexit

As I've said many times before ....

Brexit is like a baby : it will be delivered on 31st January
at which stage pregnancy is over, the umbilical cord is cut and looking after it will become visible to all

IMHO the job of these threads will remain

  • analysing the facts
  • testing the commentary
  • assessing the options

so that nothing surprises us ;-)

ListeningQuietly · 24/01/2020 22:24

Torchlight
If they continue with plans to: change the constituency boundaries, in favour of the Tory party,
Ah yes, the constituencies involved used to be the red wall
[snigger]

Peregrina · 24/01/2020 23:11

I was just about to say the same re the Red Wall, LQ. The Tories would have done that but it might be smarter to rethink. The same also with requiring ID - the Red Wall tend to be older, they might have given up driving or travelling abroad. Maybe a bus pass will suffice?

What is not getting as much attention, is the way that the number of seats held in London has declined and that there are still cities which have no Tory seats. They could take their eye of the ball here.

malylis · 24/01/2020 23:12

Its the demographics and education levels that are the difference between rural and city areas.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2020 23:15

Arborea If not knowing "'running the doors" is stupid, then I'll be joining you on the stupid step

All I've heard against Starmer is that he has joined those in favour of self-ID
I doubt if he is a passionate believer, merely hasn't switched his brain on about it or is cynically throwing women over the side
However, all the contenders afaik support the TWAW bollocks

He seems moderate and sensible on other matters, so would be my preference for Labour leader
I don't know of any other problems with him - do you @red ?

Peregrina · 24/01/2020 23:16

The demographics and education levels in part go together, because many older people, who were perfectly intelligent, were denied a post 15 education. Then things like the OU came along.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2020 23:21

Malylis I posted stats a while back analysing Northern seats Labour lost

What jumped out was the changed age demographics:
in some of the lost seats 20-30% of young people had moved out and the % of age 65+ had increased similarly

The massive difference in voting habits between young & old atm would tend to cause big Tory swings in those seats, whatever policies and leaders the 2 parties have

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2020 23:28

Whether the differences are because of education or just different life experiences,
the young-old political divide looks to be at the heart of the swing to the right

The young are piling up votes for Labour in seats they would win anyway
or in some areas are splitting between Labour / LDem / Green / SNP or Plaid

The old are much more likely to vote Tory or Farage - and Farage is much diminished,
which was of course the main aim of Cameron & co in calling that irresponsible referendum.

So the "old vote" is concentrated & effective, while the young vote is often wasted

malylis · 24/01/2020 23:55

The young vote is also more challenged because you need more votes to win in cities and big towns.

Peregrina · 25/01/2020 00:09

But Labour votes used to be concentrated - they used to joke about how they weighed Labour votes.

At least one thing might eventually come out of it, Labour might start agitating for electoral reform. The Tories won't for now, but might well suffer from hubris.

malylis · 25/01/2020 00:33

I have a feeling this isn't the seismic change its being made out to be. Lots of seats will go back to labour when brexit is done, especially if brexit hurts the economy and especially if the dire investment in the north continues.

Peregrina · 25/01/2020 07:40

I agree malylis - I read and then couldn't find it again, that the Tories have cancelled the proposed electrification of railway lines between Sheffield and somewhere else - it might have been Manchester. So much for 'Northern Powerhouse'.

Now cancelling HS2 and putting that money into norther rail would be a good inducement for those seats to stay Tory. But this sort of public investment is just not what the Tories have done since 1979. Although Thatcher would never have said F*ck Business - after all her husband was a business man as was her father in a more minor way. Unlike Johnson born into money and then a 'journalist'.

bellinisurge · 25/01/2020 08:04

Define "old", please.

AuldAlliance · 25/01/2020 08:07

Arborea
Is "running the doors" what bouncers do?
From a comment under that tweet about bistros, I think it's a reference to RLB's attempts to make herself sound well 'ard.
But my first mental image when I read it was of someone on a train, so budge up on the stupid step.

BCF, have you retired now? All the best! Enjoy those river walks.

Violetparis · 25/01/2020 08:29

I thought 'running the doors' was about being 'well hard' too, RLB represents Salford which has a reputation for being a tough place.

I can see why some are wary about Keir Starmer becoming leader of the Labour party, because he was an ardent remainer from trendy North London who helped push the party to adopt a second referendum stance. Will this put off those Labour Leave voters in those North/Midlands seats that Labour lost ? I'm really not sure if it will or won't. I think Lisa Nandy understands these areas much better than the other candidates.

I'm a member of the party and can't decide between Lisa and Keir at the moment. I think Lisa is interesting and a fresh face, Keir is intelligent and competent but a bit dull imo.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 08:29

Yep, auld yesterday was my last ever workday - free at last !

I had pizza for 90 - well the others ate some too Wink

prettybird · 25/01/2020 08:37

Lisa Nandy went down in my estimation after her interview with Andrew Neil.

Here's another New Scot explaining why in an open letter.

http://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.com/2020/01/an-open-letter-to-lisa-nandy-mp.html?m=1

Dear Lisa

I have just watched your interview with Andrew Neil and I am absolutely furious: furious enough to slam a few words down on paper in the form of this open letter.

Some background. I was born and raised a few miles up the road from the constituency you now represent – Blackburn. In 1989 I became the white half of a mixed race couple. Soon we had two brown boys and by the mid 90's it was abundantly clear Blackburn was no place to raise two mixed race boys. A septic tide of racism was starting to seep into every brick of the town and the BNP were strutting their stuff. So we ran. We fled a hundred miles north up the M6 and found ourselves a new future in Scotland.

I never felt English, but after twenty five years I feel very Scottish. They call us New Scots up here. And being a New Scot has meant my two boys have had the chance to grow up in a country where racism barely exists. The BNP never managed more than 1% up here. UKIP and the Brexit Party never made it past 4%.

How dare you make up fairytales about "narrow, divisive Nationalism."? And how dare you criticise the Scottish Government for a record which you describe as "frankly appalling."? I think it is time for a few home truths. We still regularly visit my wife's family who live in Lancaster. When they need to see the GP they have to wait over a month for an appointment. We get one in no more than two days. When they pick up their prescriptions, they pay through the nose. Ours are free. When they park up at the hospital, they pay through the nose. When we park it is free. When my nieces and nephews look to university, they have to get their heads around the idea of living with a minimum of £30,000 of debt. If they lived up here, it would be free. English prisons are overcrowded to boiling point, Dumfries Prison is seldom more than 70% full. At eight o'clock in the morning in Lancaster almost every shop doorway is home to a homeless person. In Dumfries there is not a single one.

And I know about this stuff by the way – I manage the region's largest food bank. A few months back I handed out a food parcel to a young lad who had been made homeless in Manchester. After a few weeks on the streets, he decided to make use of his last worthwhile possession – his bike. He hit the road and headed north. He stopped at town after town to apply for a bed for the night and he was turned away every time – Wigan, Blackburn, Preston, Lancaster, Kendal, Penrith, Carlisle.... until he crossed the border. Into Scotland. And when he applied for homeless accommodation in Dumfries, he was given a room for the night straight away. So how dare you take to the airwaves to accuse my Government of a "frankly appalling record."

However, that statement pales into insignificance in comparison to what you had to say about our demands for a second Independence referendum. You actually suggested the UK should look to other countries for some clues on how to deal with "narrow, divisive" nationalism. And you actually cited Spain's handling of Catalonia as a shining example.

As a New Scot, I have come to be a fervent supporter of the dream of independence. In the 2014 referendum I took the 'Yes' side in many debates. Over the years, I have written lots of blogs on the subject and nearly a million readers have read them. I guess it is fair to say I wear my heart on my sleeve. I am allowed to do this because I still live in a country where free speech is still allowed and tolerated. And every time I post a blog, I feel lucky and take a moment to remember all those who paid a heavy price for fighting to free their nations from the rule of London.

In Ireland. In India. In Aden. In Israel. In Kenya. In Ghana.

It's a long, long list. A shameful litany of imprisonment and beatings for those who dared to defy their London masters.

You seem impressed by the Spanish Government's handling of the Catalonian Independence movement. Well, I'm not. If I was posting my blog in Catalonia, I would be in prison by now. And if I had joined a march for independence, I would have been beaten within an inch of my life by Spanish riot police. And by now, my leaders would either be living in exile or imprisoned for years. And this is how you think the likes of me should be treated? This is the shining example of good practice you feel the Westminster Government should aspire to? Well, shame on you Lisa Nandy.

No wonder your party is down to one MP in Scotland.

Mark Frankland
New Scot
January 2020

Violetparis · 25/01/2020 08:38

I also think Lisa Nandy has shown she is willing to listen to voters in the Red Wall areas, not sure Keir Starmer and the other candidates have. I keep changing my mind on who to vote for though think Keir Starmer will win.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 08:44

If Labour ever want to win back a significant number of Scottish seats, their politicians need to stop being so bloody rude about Scotland
Maybe even copy some ideas that work well in Scotland and let the English have them too

Violetparis · 25/01/2020 08:47

prettybird I think Labour lost Scotland because it took their voters there for granted and didn't listen to them. I think it is in danger of losing huge parts of the North of England for good for the same reason.

DrBlackbird · 25/01/2020 09:04

Will this put off those Labour Leave voters in those North/Midlands seats that Labour lost ?

I don't think so Violet. I live in the Midlands and really it feels overwhelmingly conservative at heart. As in the adjective not the political party. Yes he's a bit dull, but Keir is a moderate and therefore much more likely to appeal and gain back votes lost. Much more than Nandy or LB.

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