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Brexit

Westminstenders: Social Conservativism

951 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/12/2019 16:11

The post election autopsy is starting to show something up. Finally. Brexit is part of wider political issues and fractures. This isn't exactly rocket science but it's an inconvenient truth that has been ignored.

We have something of a conflict going on between economic conservatism and social conservatism.

The Tories as the party of business were economically conservative and put this ahead of other issues. "It's the economy stupid."

But as this has continued this has opened up social division and the gap between rich and poor has laid bare social issues.

This is where Labour and the LDs are now becoming something of a cropper. In Brexit they continued the idea that the economy was the most important this and in doing so has fuelled the idea that they don't care about social issues. They are perceived to be putting the interests of businesses as more important than those people.

Of course it's not as straightforward as this. To fund ways to stop social issues you need good economics.

Add to this the progressive movement which has become authoritarian and has lost sight of certain social issues in favour of identity politics and you start to have a real issue. One that the EU as an identity has become caught up in in this country. The wedge to drive in the cracks.

Issues haven't been tackled because identity is more important and was prioritised. And we've had scandals arising out of this.

Instead we've had the increasing demonisation of social conservativism and the idea that if you question certain things you are backward or bigoted as a means to silence people. And now we've had a massive backlash against that generalisation and lack of nuance. And not seeing what was happening and having a self awareness of how this read to more socially conservative types.

That's not to say there aren't massive issues in social conservatism which can be indeed racist, homophobic, sexist and yes very bigoted in nature. The trouble is that the failure to be able to tackle nuance which identity politics forced and a failure to understand that the pace of change needs to be set by public consensus rather than top down authoritarianism has lead us to where we are now.

Rights set up to protect certain groups have failed in practice even if they exist in law. And those who professed to stand for the interests of certain groups forgot the origins of rights.

Thus undermining the entire centre left project, which in some respects the EU embodies.

We now find ourselves in a divided and ruled scenario where those who should have benefitted most from rights can be exploited by an elite who have successfully seen an opportunity to step into the void that identity politics created.

And now the left and liberals have to wake up to this reality and come up with a solution to it.

There is a lot of uncomfortable and difficult decisions to be made here.

The solution to the culture war isn't to push back harder and to become more authoritarian in tone about the right of 'right and wrong'.

It's to address why identity politics caused the left and liberals to forget their origins and purpose and why they established certain ideals in the first place.

Meanwhile whilst they figure out just how they lost their way and were blinkered by their own self righteousness, everything that the centre left project established will be gradually unpicked. Or if Johnson can do it, without being challenged, at some considerable pace.

It comes down to remembering your roots and having a solid connection with the reality of people's lives rather than high minded idealism and a sense of superiority. This is what people saw regardless of the noble intent of Labour and the Lib Dems.

'Social conservatism' were dirty words. Now they are the reality of the present. Whether we like it or not.

Economic stability has become secondary to this desire for social conservatism.

Labour and the Lib Dems have to adapt to this and will have to offer something to those with more socially conservative views to move forward now. The alternative is a very long wait outside in the cold of politics.

Liberal democracy is about balancing needs. You have to identify needs and you have to understand how to balance them for liberal democracy to thrive. Failure to do the former means the latter fails.

And here we are.

2020 beckons.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New to all.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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DustyDiamond · 24/12/2019 22:16

Merry Christmas to all Westminstenders
🍷 🕊

RedToothBrush · 24/12/2019 23:13

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01402382.2019.1615322
Bricks in the Wall: The Politics of Housing in Europe
Housing and populism

This paper bridges the economic and values-based approaches to populism by arguing that the geography of wealth inequality offers a convincing explanation for the pattern of populist vote share. Drawing on fine-grained house price data in the UK and France, it is shown that the pattern of house prices ‒ even within small districts ‒ plays a major part in shaping support for Brexit and Marine Le Pen. The findings illustrate how longstanding variation in local wealth shapes the geography of discontent and drives populist appeal. Populism, the article concludes, is primarily a politics of place, and place is a product, in part, of the housing market.

And

The housing market structures the political map by locking people into ‒ or out of ‒ different climates of fortune: in some areas, a housing boom inspires optimism; in others, a housing bust fosters a sense of exclusion ‒ not only from the gains of their neighbours, but also from the areas where housing is no longer affordable to them. It is in these latter areas, we show, that the culture of resentment thrives (Cramer 2016), clearing the way for populist candidates. Housing has clear material winners and losers, but its geographic fixity also means that houses are embedded in local communities, and voters’ sense of self-understanding and group identity flows from these local conditions. Diverging fortunes in the housing market can activate both sets of concerns and thereby drive voters’ satisfaction with the political status quo.

Oh what a surprise

Nick Srnicek @n_srnck
Those aged 55+ have seen their wealth increase, often significantly, between 2006-2016 - a big part of the material basis for the age divide in British politics
FT article

Westminstenders: Social Conservativism
OP posts:
lonelyplanetmum · 25/12/2019 00:01

On the stroke of midnight.
Happy Christmas one and all.🎄

borntobequiet · 25/12/2019 05:26

Up early for Christmas visiting. It’s a clear morning - I can see stars from my bedroom window - so the drive west to east should be spectacular as dawn approaches. A very happy Christmas to one and all x

CrunchyCarrot · 25/12/2019 07:16

A Merry Christmas to all! Xmas Smile
Wishing everyone who travels a safe journey.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/12/2019 08:37

♪ღ♪•.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.••.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.•¨•.¸¸¸.•.¸¸¸.•¨¨ღ*
*
HAPPY CHRISTMAS / CHANUKAH / WINTER HOLIDAY
to all Westministenders Xmas Smile

♪ღ♪•.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.••.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.•¨•.¸¸¸.••.¸¸¸.•¨¨

MarshaBradyo · 25/12/2019 08:53

Merry Christmas to all the lovely people here

OhYouBadBadKitten · 25/12/2019 09:43

Merry Christmas :)

thecatfromjapan · 25/12/2019 09:50

Merry Christmas.
Wishing joy and light to everyone.

TheElementsSong · 25/12/2019 10:26

🎄🎄🎄

Westminstenders: Social Conservativism
ContinuityError · 25/12/2019 11:31

Happy Christmas all 🎄

I'm not one for rituals and traditions with Christmas Dinner.

You can make your own family traditions though. Much of what we see as traditional is Victorian anyway (although some of what we do originated with the Tudors).

PeninsulaPanic · 25/12/2019 13:32

Happy Holidays Westministenders 🎄 Get a well-earned break in before the saga continues...

Just out of interest, how do you like your turkey? Done/oven-ready/pinged/underdone? Or off the menu altogether 😉

ListeningQuietly · 25/12/2019 14:13

4 bird roast in the oven
vegetables picked in the garden now ready to cook
wine will be opened a bit later

Happy Christmas all

HesterThrale · 25/12/2019 17:30

Happy Christmas everyone! Let’s enjoy our families and friends, and hope for a calmer 2020.

It will be a year of changes; but maybe by next December we’ll know where we’re going. And hopefully it won’t be as bad as what we dread.
Let’s look after each other, and our planet.

GeistohneGrenzen · 25/12/2019 19:18

HesterThrale ... And hopefully it won’t be as bad as what we dread.
Let’s look after each other, and our planet.

Amen to that!

Xenia · 25/12/2019 19:23

Happy Christmas to everyone and let 2020 be a year of the nation healing from the three years when the Tories, Labour and even families were riven in two in the Brexit/Remain divide.

GaspodeWonderCat · 26/12/2019 06:40

Post-Brexit UK always welcome back in EU, says Timmermans.
European commission’s VP writes ‘love letter’ to Britons, saying UK unnecessarily damaged by Brexit.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/26/post-brexit-uk-always-welcome-back-in-eu-says-timmermans

CrissmussMockers · 26/12/2019 08:41

So can we have our rebates and opt-ous back?

lonelyplanetmum · 26/12/2019 10:13

Just read the PM and Carrie Symonds are spending Christmas/ New Year in Mustique ?

If true that's a far cry from Theresa May's Welsh walking holidays & Cameron's Cornish breaks.

One positive of this election is that previous prime ministers now seem better than they really were.

TheMustressMhor · 26/12/2019 10:38

One positive of this election is that previous prime ministers now seem better than they really were

Ain't it the truth.

I was (briefly) thinking wistfully of our ex-PM, Mrs. Thatcher.

At least she knew how to do her hair.

Songsofexperience · 26/12/2019 11:08

Just read the PM and Carrie Symonds are spending Christmas/ New Year in Mustique ?

Yep. But remainers are the evil metropolitan elite, eh?

flouncyfanny · 26/12/2019 12:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 26/12/2019 12:18

@flouncyfanny

That's very kind Grin

I was lucky enough to cross the original Lake Pontchartrain bridge in the 90s. Quite a weird sensation to be so far out you can't see land from the middle.

Of course, there's been a bridge between Italy and Sicily (between 3-5 miles, depending on your preferred course) mooted for decades, for what it's worth.

As a series of infrastructure projects, the UK could do a lot worse than upgrade a lot of the fucking switchbacks it seems to love on main roads (look at the A419 in Gloucester, for an example). It would probably be the single most effective roads project I can imagine:

  • immediate reduction in accidents
  • immediate reduction in emissions, coupled with
  • immediate reduction in overall freight fuel consumption
  • reduced travel times
  • less strain on nearby roads currently used as bypasses

and for all those reasons, it will never happen.

Meanwhile any look at China (last years "Grand Tour") reveals they can't get enough viaducts between peaks.

Now Victorian Britain would have scoffed at any naysaying and just fucking done it. You can't look at (for example) Tower Bridge and not think: that is a monument to a country who forgot what "no" means. However I think we either lost that mojo, or the Americans stole it somewhere in the last 50 years. (Concorde excepted).

ContinuityError · 26/12/2019 13:14

Upgrading to remove switchbacks is expensive in both in terms of land take and earth moving though, so unlikely to happen (have not-so-fond memories of cold wet winter drilling jobs on the A419). TBH most main roads could be hugely improved by replacing traffic lights and roundabouts with grade separated junctions. Again unlikely to happen due to cost.

DustyDiamond · 26/12/2019 13:45

TBH most main roads could be hugely improved by replacing traffic lights and roundabouts with grade separated junctions. Again unlikely to happen due to cost.

Had to respond to this...!

Something that's been driving me mad in our area is a new access/exit to the dual carriageway that bypasses us (at the next bit up from us)

There was already a bridge over the top (with the crossing road) - but instead of simply putting in slip roads, they plonked a bloody roundabout in the middle of the previous unbroken stretch of dual carriageway, with an exit slip road up to the bridge Confused

Why??!!

Why would they do that on purpose???

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