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Brexit

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time

935 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2019 08:12

Johnson already seems to be hinting at protections for workers rights and the environment that he promised are to be dropped.

Along with enshrining Brexit in law to the end of Dec 2020 thus creating another Brexit no deal date. This time without any safety net in parliament.

"won't Johnson be more liberal than he suggested" they cry

About that...

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placemats · 19/12/2019 00:01

It's a Nandy/Phillips ticket for me. Night all.

tobee · 19/12/2019 01:39

Trump impeached.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/12/2019 06:03

Trump's (deranged) defence letter to Nancy Pelosi is here.Astonishing.

Trump-Pelosi letter

I thought the bit where he lists his achievements has parallels for the new Tory agenda here.

Apart from the bit about prescription charges going down the other similarities are striking. It's all authoritarian stuff about our great military, lower taxes, bring tough on immigration and crime.

"Your party simply cannot compete with our record: 7 million new jobs;
the lowest-ever unemployment for African Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asian Americans;
a rebuilt military;
a completely reformed VA with Choice and Accountability for our great veterans;
more than 170 new federal judges and two Supreme Court Justices; historic tax and regulation cuts;
the elimination of the individual mandate;
the first decline in prescription drug prices in half a century;
the first new branch of the United States Military since 1947,
the Space Force; strong protection of the Second Amendment;
criminal justice reform;
a defeated ISIS caliphate and the killing of the world's number one terrorist leader, al-Baghdadi;
the replacement of the disastrous NAFTA trade deal with the wonderful USMCA (Mexico and Canada); a breakthrough Phase One trade deal with China; massive new trade deals with Japan and South Korea; withdrawal from the terrible Iran Nuclear Deal; cancellation of the unfair and costly Paris Climate Accord; becoming the world's top energy producer; recognition of Israel's capital, opening the American Embassy in Jerusalem, and recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights; a colossal reduction in illegal border crossings,the ending of Catch-and-Release, and the building of the Southern Border Wall ---- - and that is just the beginning, there is so much more.You cannot defend yourself extreme policies open borders, mass migration, high crime, crippling taxes, socialized healthcare, destruction of American energy, "

lonelyplanetmum · 19/12/2019 06:53

Morning Born.

I've a question for everyone to explain to me later in the day.

•When May secured her DUP majority her show of strength lead her to trigger Art 50 in March. This seemed generally accepted to be a mistake which meant there was insufficient time later an an extension to the transition period was needed.

•When Johnson secured his huge majority the same show of strength happens. He adds a new clause to the Brexit bill to rule out any extension to transition beyond the end of next year.

Who is this show of strength for? The domestic market- the voters who just voted? The ERG ? Or the EU?

Both incarnations of Tory must know trade deals take ages. Any political party aims to hold power as long as possible.Why the pretence- why not just say look trade agreements take at least 7 years. We are extending the fixed term parliament's act to eight years. We will deliver by then.

Tanith · 19/12/2019 06:56

“ If Johnson were to regard me as a traitor, I would regard that as a badge of honour.”

That’s all very well until they start publishing the lists of “traitors” and people start attacking them.
It’s been said again and again that the current situation is reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

chatongris · 19/12/2019 07:01

Both incarnations of Tory must know trade deals take ages. Any political party aims to hold power as long as possible.Why the pretence- why not just say look trade agreements take at least 7 years. We are extending the fixed term parliament's act to eight years. We will deliver by then.

One possible reason for the strong man approach now is because he wants to strip parliamentary oversight out of the WA, and this is a red herring.

Stripping out parliamentary oversight means that the ERG don't get a veto,

A barebones trade agreement in 11 months is possible only if he concedes on all the EU's demands, or if he makes none of his own. There will be concessions extracted even for minimal market access; my guess is that he doesn't want the ERG having a vote on those concessions.

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2019 07:35

Trump being impeached means precisely nothing but making Democrats feel good about themselves. He won't be found guilty by the Republicans. Far too little too late and only highlights the divide in America.

Meanwhile back in the UK Johnson looks set to piss off the Nimbys with significant changes to planning law which will allow for building upwards without need for planning as well as freeing up land for building.

Wasn't in the manifesto but being touted as a top priority.

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RedToothBrush · 19/12/2019 07:36

Being a 'strong man' means doing things that are unpopular for all...

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Pan2 · 19/12/2019 07:44

Starmer/Cooper - don't mind it which order.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/12/2019 07:52

Hmmm thanks Chatongris

To me that makes sense for May. She did try to avoid parliamentary oversight perhaps so the ERG didn't get a veto? But with the increased majority the ERG don't have the power to veto.

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2019 08:13

So all this business of Labour having a female leader and having a problem with sexism? And the graph I showed about how women were much more likely to support Labour and how this might mean they have a 'man problem' with getting across to the electorate?

Wellll....

Jake Berry @jakeberry
Welcoming (some!) of the new #BlueWall of northern Conservative MPs to Parliament tonight

Working together we’ll hunt like a pack to get a brilliant deal for people across the #NorthernPowerhouse!

💪🏻💪🏻

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
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Pan2 · 19/12/2019 08:14

Fuck, that photo just put me off my porridge.

MarshaBradyo · 19/12/2019 08:15

Blinking heck haven’t seen a group of people at work together in a pic like that for a while. Same face after face.

MarshaBradyo · 19/12/2019 08:17

Indyref decision will be interesting. Missed who on R4 saying denying it is undemocratic. Good interview. Will Johnson deny it

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2019 08:17

"Being a 'strong man' means doing things that are unpopular for all.."

imo in practice it usually starts with forcing through some populist policies over the wishes of those who oppose him, but please his supporters,

then finding later that these or additional policies won't work and forcing through measures on everyone

MarshaBradyo · 19/12/2019 08:17

Good interview because R4 went in hard on well what about a hard border

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2019 08:19

It's an issue though for Labour. If they have a problem with men wanting to vote for authoritarian masculinity, how is appointing a woman as leader going to solve that? And how do you tackle the obvious sexism.

It's almost as if gender stereotypes are getting stronger not weaker.

Oh.

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BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2019 08:19

Yep, appointing someone without a willy is not going to improve things other than them not being Corbyn

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2019 08:22

The YouGov charts I posted earlier showed that Labour have more of a problem winning votes from men

and they could have an even worse one if they choose a younger version of Corbyn but with boobs

borntobequiet · 19/12/2019 08:26

Someone (cant remember who but seemed legit and convincing) on the radio yesterday saying that the legislation to prevent an extension could easily be overturned by later legislation - “Sorry, chums, no can do a trade deal, in the interests of not actually fucking business I will regretfully have to require an extension/all the fault of EU intransigence dontcha know”. With a big majority, no prob.

MarshaBradyo · 19/12/2019 08:27

The all woman shortlist is crazy to me. If they ever want to have a chance.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2019 08:28

Also, v few voters and approx zero of those Labour voters who couldn't vote Corbyn still care about the Iraq disaster - or indeed ever did

It's an obsession of those on the left who rarely talk to anyone normal

Blair's contribution to Labour's defeat was in neglecting to repair the massive damage done to former heavy industry areas like the North and Midlands by MrsT's deindustrialisation

Alsohuman · 19/12/2019 08:31

The predicted elitism inferences about Starmer have already begun - the front page of the Telegraph today reports that “millionaire” has been removed from his Wiki page. I noticed R4 was going his full title with every mention yesterday. He’s definitely the one they’re scared of.

TheElementsSong · 19/12/2019 08:32

That’s all very well until they start publishing the lists of “traitors” and people start attacking them.

Ah, but that won't happen because Leavers are unprejudiced, brilliant, thoughtful, inclusive, gentle souls and in fact the most oppressed victims of the universe.

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