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Brexit

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time

935 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2019 08:12

Johnson already seems to be hinting at protections for workers rights and the environment that he promised are to be dropped.

Along with enshrining Brexit in law to the end of Dec 2020 thus creating another Brexit no deal date. This time without any safety net in parliament.

"won't Johnson be more liberal than he suggested" they cry

About that...

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Peregrina · 18/12/2019 21:16

It [EU Citizenship] will be on the table as part of the deal from the EU's end.

I hope they make this a compulsory part.

If Johnson were to regard me as a traitor, I would regard that as a badge of honour.

chatongris · 18/12/2019 21:17

I'm not a massive Keir fan mainly because his long game on Brexit was a misjudgement. (Though he's hardly alone in having made fatal errors of judgement).

But he's the best of the known candidates so far and he would be very good at PMQ.

TatianaLarina · 18/12/2019 21:19

He doesn’t strike me as a radical chap so I assumed that was his pitch to Corbynites.

I hope Yvette Cooper will stand.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/12/2019 21:19

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chatongris · 18/12/2019 21:21

Being competent is surely pretty radical right now.

That is Starmer's most radical asset. Basic competence. Not much of it on show on recent front or shadow front benches.

Peregrina · 18/12/2019 21:24

Quite a few South Asians blamed the EU for Theresa May's visa restrictions.

With some justification.

I wonder how they will react to the EU free trade deal with India (that comes with a lot of visas) just as the UK is leaving.

Pissed off, I should think. But we might get a trade deal of our own, eventually, which comes with more visas - so Johnson or his successor might please one group of people and piss off another. I wonder which group he will prioritise - Asians or the racists in his camp?

MarshaBradyo · 18/12/2019 21:24

Yes I thought it could be re pitch to Corbynites. I really rate him as someone who can get the unruly incompetent party in hand. I will feel better if he gets it.

TatianaLarina · 18/12/2019 21:25

Being competent is surely pretty radical right now.

Sad but true.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/12/2019 21:27

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RedToothBrush · 18/12/2019 21:44

Paula Surridge @p_surridge
A brief look at the @yougov data comparing 2017 and 2019 on key demographics. Couple of surprises in here

First educational qualifications. Conservatives lost some support among the high qualifications group, while Labour lost a little bit less amongst most highly educated.

By NRS Social Grade Labour's greatest losses are among the lowest group here but only just behind C1 and C2 groups. Conservatives lost support among the ABs (And before everyone shouts 'but DE includes pensioners' see next tweet)

Most surprising one of all saved for last.

The Conservatives gained most (albeit only a little) among youngest group here (18-19 year olds) Labour lost support dramatically in this group (with some increase for LDs and Greens)

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
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RedToothBrush · 18/12/2019 21:45

Paula Surridge @p_surridge
Had been clear in polling for sometime that there was stronger Green party support in this group, so very much a case of fracturing to many places rather than a swing from Labour to one other place.

The future is green not red...

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Jason118 · 18/12/2019 21:50

Unfortunately, recent evidence points to the future being blue, for some time to come.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/12/2019 21:58

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TiddleTaddleTat · 18/12/2019 22:09

Not sure how surprised I am about rise in vote share for Cons among 18-19 yr olds. As first time voters, I bet many of them are highly influenced by the voting intentions of their parents...

tobee · 18/12/2019 22:13

That probably works all ways tbf....

TiddleTaddleTat · 18/12/2019 22:13

I'm not all that bothered about Starmer as leader, tbh. He's clearly an intelligent and articulate bloke, and would be great at PMQs. Is that what we need now? I suppose we are not expecting this next Labour leader to lead us into an election anytime this decade.

Of the available options, he probably has the clearest of Brexit positions and understands the detail thoroughly. Can't say the same for RLB who I don't rate much, from what I've seen, or Angela Rayner, who wont have been at the meetings with the EU that Starmer attended as shadow Brexit secretary this and last year.

TiddleTaddleTat · 18/12/2019 22:17

Yes, I think I've talked myself round into supporting Keir Starmer as labour leader.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/12/2019 22:22

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Microdot · 18/12/2019 22:25

No one's up for Lisa Nandy then?

ListeningQuietly · 18/12/2019 22:28

Corbyn proves that two legs are better than four
stupid stupid stupid man
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/18/labour-party-staff-angry-at-handling-of-possible-redundancies

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/12/2019 22:33

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Arborea · 18/12/2019 22:35

Delurking again briefly to thank a number of posters for some really insightful comments. Apologies that these go back a few threads: I was away for a couple of days and am just getting back on track.

@Gretawhitethorn - you expressed so well my own fear about Johnson, i.e. that he needs it "to drag on and on and for himself to look like the guy who is trying his best to get it done for them and being thwarted at every turn"

I hope we're both wrong about his "support who care more about satisfying their anger at brexit being thwarted than they do about the funding NHS and fixing other social problems".

@Singasonga - a hundred yeses to your post about the wasted opportunity for May to demonstrate real states(wo)manship and look for unity, squandering instead for a futile search for 'The Real Brexit'

@DreichXmas - I'm fascinated by your reference to voluntary work in the US court system and that it doesn't have an equivalent in the UK. Are you comfortable sharing more information about this?

For what it's worth I'm intrigued by the reference in the Tory manifesto to the post Brexit need to "look at the broader aspects of our constitution... [including] access to justice for ordinary people"

As well as agreeing with RTB that environmental issues will increase in electoral significance in future, I hope wonder if/when issues of justice will come to the fore. On Twitter the Secret Barrister has pointed out that Keir Starmer presided over a lot of damaging cuts to the CPS, and there is little doubt that for those who have day to day contact with the courts and justice systems that they're pretty much at breaking point. The success of the Secret Barrister's book has done wonders for raising the issues, but they still don't seem to be of mainstream concern.

What do others think will/should be the issues that the next general election should be fought over?

colouringinpro · 18/12/2019 23:24

I like Starmer (I like Yvette Cooper too but I don't think she'd be selected). Also Phillips, Rayner and Nandy

dreichXmas · 18/12/2019 23:31

@Arborea I am a CASA or voluntary court advocate.
I am appointed by a judge to visit a foster child once a month, see them, their foster carer and their family members if possible.
I attend social services meetings, read school reports, liaise with therapists and doctors.
I then write a report and attend court to answer to it. I give recommendations in my report.

In the UK this is most like a Guardian.

As a social worker I'm pretty comfortable with this with minimal supervision but it wouldn't be a volunteer of the street job in the UK.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2019 23:52

mother I've heard this analysis from several sources

Why did so many Asian immigrants vote to leave the EU?

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/04/08/the-story-of-brexit-is-the-story-of-empire-why-did-so-many-asian-immigrants-vote-for-brexit/

...... second generation immigrant I spoke to said some Pakistani people campaigned to leave because

they wanted to “control immigration in a way that was favourable to the Indian subcontinent”.

“One of their arguments was that, if we leave, we’d be better able to accept people from the Indian subcontinent,
professionals such as doctors, rather than taking them from Europe,”
.......
"Britain has a moral obligation to reconnect with the Commonwealth and I consider that a form of reparations

That, if we’re going to have free movement, it should be between Britain and India, Pakistan and countries like Nigeria, not with the EU"

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