Westminstenders: Penny dropping time

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson already seems to be hinting at protections for workers rights and the environment that he promised are to be dropped.

Along with enshrining Brexit in law to the end of Dec 2020 thus creating another Brexit no deal date. This time without any safety net in parliament.

"won't Johnson be more liberal than he suggested" they cry

About that...

I reported a post on the Arms thread a month or so ago. It was a racist post about Diane Abbott, by one of the regular posters, and was removed. Anyway I've hidden the thread now.

Hope you reported the spate of antisemitism on here too.

Again, lies

The post re Diane Abbott was nit racist - it was removed initially, then reinstated because MN re-visited it & apologised for their knee jerk reaction to what was a vexatious report

A lot of what Johnson appears to be doing is grandstanding.

Yes why do you need to do that with a big majority? May did it too, rushing to trigger article 50 when there was no time critical reason to rush.

Why is Johnson grandstanding about the ECJ again. The public had lost interest in this.

I get so jaded of the urban myths that fundamentally exaggerate the reach of the ECJ. Now Johnson is putting it on the agenda again. Why?

I can’t decide if making a fuss about the average 4.9 ECJ cases per year means we are justifying a hard Brexit or heading for a soft one?

——-

This is my own previous long post on the ECJ - Lonely's fact check..

Our esteemed PM, Farage, and vile press have perpetuated ECJ myths for years.

It’s so scary as a nation we operate with dangerous and destructive fictions taken as fact.

1.	We ask the ECJ to get involved in 0.00012 % of our legal cases. 
2.	The  ECJ has a very, very limited remit compared to our own. The limited spheres of influence  which have been delegated to it by agreement by us are mainly environment, agriculture and some employment and consumer.
3.	 We agree with 95% of the regulations anyway!
4.	In the 13 years 2003–2016 there were only 63 judgments handed down by the ECJ on UK infringements. This is 4.9 UK cases per year.  Just under half 29 of those related to the environment. This compares to to our own courts having control over at least 3,822,536 cases per year. 

Further details from previous post follow.

I wonder whether Traditional Labour voters / constituencies who «lent»
Boris their vote to «Get Brexit Done» will revert back to a traditional Labour vote once the 5 years are up,?
There’s 100 odd new Tory Mps. They’re definitely going to be biddable for the next 5 years, so Boris is going to push through all his privatisation by stealth etc in this term I guess.

I don’t follow US politics; but is there any chance that Teump could be voted out in the 2020 elections?
He is as Teflon coated as Boris, and he appears to still have support amongst a similar demographic ( to the UK Johnson voters)

Last time I went into the Arms thread - which was a long time ago - there was full on racism.

But they don’t recognise racism anyway - so I don’t expect better.

So Blair has stuck his oar in now: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50829352. I’m sure that will help a lot

Last time I went into the Arms thread - which was a long time ago - there was full on racism.

Bollocks

But they don’t recognise racism anyway - so I don’t expect better.

Again, please stop misrepresenting other posters

Don't be ridiculous @TatianaLarina , anything dodgy gets pulled by MNHQ. Much like the disgusting spate of antisemitism on here.

think that analysis underestimates how deep the ravages of Thatcherism and the challenges of globalisation, Peregrina.

With hindsight, yes, Blair perhaps should have taxed higher, wooed international business to the North and gone for a massive building of infrastructure - but, mult goodness,?would the electorate have believed a government telling them that, 20 years hence, they'd be grateful?

Totally agree. A huge amount of money was channeled by Blair/Brown into the NHS and education etc. The problems are actually very difficult to fix.

[much too sad and dazed by it all to contribute sensibly]

Don't be ridiculous @TatianaLarina , anything dodgy gets pulled by MNHQ. Much like the disgusting spate of antisemitism on here.

I’m assuming this is ironic. Given the treatment of AS on this thread.

Ah I missed KS on R4, caught the end. His voice isn’t what I expected.

@TatianaLarina , I've seen nasty antisemitic posts on here that made me sick. Which took ages to get pulled.

I agree Bellini.

I do find MN as forum to be weirdly behind on racism. There’s a lot more causal racism here allowed to stand than another large public forum I used to frequent. Where, for all its faults the mods were much faster to act.

Why on earth are we squabbling about what goes on in the Brexit Arms? They can say what the hell they like as far as I’m concerned. I most definitely won’t be reading it.

pretty yes it is.

We used to say going 'Down the town's if going to the local centre.

Ir 'up the town' if going to Glasgow.

I had forgotten that as I have been away so long

What strikes me is how Johnson/Cummings hit the ground running in July, made a devastatingly effective plan, stuck to it and it worked. It’s a bit of a blur now, but I expect 95% of what’s happened since July was totally intended. The prorogations; the quick negotiation of a ‘new’ EU deal; pretending not to want an election then goading the opposition into one; the plan to break the red wall (I dislike that expression); the lies and misinformation; the doubling down; the sound bites; the refusal to do interviews; the 3 word slogans etc, etc.

Maybe the loss of 21 MPs, Amber Rudd resigning and the Lady Hale court judgment were the only unexpected things.

It’s nearly all gone to plan. They probably decided in July to force an election. If you remember, Johnson was out electioneering during the prorogation. And even though he got a bad reception when he was out in public and the youthquake happened, they still knew they’d ‘win’. They were never worried.

What this tells me is that they are right now meticulously planning the next six months/year/5 years. And the Opposition are wasting valuable time. By the time we have a new leader and shadow cabinet, we’ll be out of the EU and there’ll be a raft of legislation in preparation to limit our rights and freedoms.

Sadly, time is what Labour needs right now, but time is not on their side.

BJ intends to pass a law new law would not allow public bodies - elected councils etc - to work with those who boycott, divest from or sanction Israel.

So if democratically elected councillors react to shootings of unarmed Palestinian kids, the Tory govt will outlaw any sanctions.
Councils will be forced to buy goods or services from those they consider murderers, invite them to cultural and science events

Could that even apply to unis ?

I think local councils should be allowed to make such decisions theselves, not be overruled by central govt

Is that hateful anti-semitism now ?
Because I am going to campaign for the right to boycott Israel
The GE campaign has opened my eyes

You can accuse me of lying Dusty, but you can’t change what I saw.

I don’t see squabbling and I think commenting on racism in the Brexit Arms is a perfectly valid in the context of Brexit ideology.

The fact you won't be reading it indicates you don't want to hear anything outside your own echochamber. Which is why we are in this mess.
I get into all sorts of spats in the Arms and have generally found that if I keep my posts neutral and jolly I don't get spatted (!) at. It's rather like on here. I was criticised on there for pointing out the similarities to here - don't say anything critical of the consensus view, assume people on the other thread are [insert dismissive description] - but that was poo-pooed as well.
Obviously I'm completely wrong and the two threads are very different

Looking back through my emails, I see I also reported some of DustyDiamond's posts on the Brexit Arms, which were removed. All of this is reminding me why I hide that thread.

I only dip in from time to time - I also think MN is a little behind the curve on addressing racist discourse - I would certainly report any AS comments.

I note many of the more professional Tory Brexiter posters on other sites have the US and Israeli flags next to the Union flag
Interesting choice of allies, who presumably they hope will benefit from this Tory Brexit

• a Labour Brexit would have been very different

re suggestions that Labour should ally with the Tories to get Brexit done:

Anyone think that a US FTA defined by the massive US multinationals would be a "jobs Brexit" ?
The Corbynite Leavers also won't want the foreign policy limitations, which include aligning more with US and Israeli interests

People disagree all the time on here, although from a generally similar (not identical) POV on Brexit.

The people who get short shrift aren't people with opposing views, but those who post in a goady way, like asking someone a question and then responding to their answer in a horrible snide way like the well named hate did last night.

I personally disagree strongly with some people on here, including RTB whose recent posts have IMO (and I know I'm going to get flak for this) come over as a bit denialist about the role of racism in Brexit.