Do all 365 Tory MPs want the same kind of Brexit

[fedup21]

Is it now just a case of Boris suggesting stuff and the Tories nodding it through or is there likely to still be lots of disagreement?

They're in Schengen and people can pass through, but there is no free movement of workers, oh boy no.

OK, I didn't know that.

I Swiss friend described the country as the iron fist inside the velvet glove

Relying on the WTO to look out for a stand alone UK was always rainbow unicorn territory

Yes, up to a point, until there is a dispute

Trumps attack on WTO means that WTO will not have the ability to control the 164 members if they do not follow WTO rules, but does not prevent counties from trading with each other. The most favoured nation principle will be the most likely rule to be ignored as counties will pick and choose to suit their own purposes for tariffs and control of economic areas as WTO has no clear guidelines on border controls.

Potentially catastrophic for Ireland if UK leaves EU without a deal as UK could impose; restrictions, border controls and tariffs for goods entering UK mainland, but none whatsoever for goods entering NI.

That then forces Ireland to install hard border like those that exist in Eastern Europe to comply with EU regulations. Hence GFA is wrecked. Not by UK, but by US thwarting WTO.

Is this Trumps strategy as he has always been in favour of no deal with EU so that US and UK can trade without EU intervention?

Hence GFA is wrecked. Not by UK, but by US thwarting WTO.

I bet it won't be sold as the US wrecking the GFA. However, here I would hope that the strong Irish lobby in the US would intervene.

Some one asked me to clarify a post earlier- I am the typo queen, sorry.

All new Tory MPs certainly won't want the same kind of Brexit.Many old moderate Tories have been jettisoned but there is still a range of opinions.

The only possible options are summarised in the original chart of choices.

The main Tory schism is between :

1. Limiting market access to our nearest trading partners who happen to be in a powerful bloc.

But dodging some trade related standards in the sphere of food, environment, consumer& workers' rights. (This is the last four harder columns on right hand side of the original Barnier choice's chart Switzerland ,Ukraine,Turkey, Canada.)

1. Accepting some trade related standards but boosting the economy by retaining some of the benefits of our previous EU deal.(Second softer column - Norway,Iceland, Lichtenstein Left hand side of the chart.)

If the choice is (2) Johnson will have to slap down the ERG ultras.

If the choices are (1) the ERG ultras are going to want the no deal or Canada end of the spectrum.

Which way will all the 365 go? I'm cautiously optimistic they may go for (2) ...but then you've got Cummings in the background. He is allegedly a nihilist who wants to tear the whole of our existing structures down. So I guess his tactics may be used internally to persuade MPs to go for the right hand columns - using similar persuasive techniques used on the electorate.

I am afraid I cannot be cautiously optimistic. I will believe the worst until I am proved wrong.

Mystery
The USA will always take Ireland's side against the UK
for incredibly obvious reasons
to those who study history and politics

UK could impose; restrictions, border controls and tariffs for goods entering UK mainland, but none whatsoever for goods entering NI.

That then forces Ireland to install hard border like those that exist in Eastern Europe to comply with EU regulations. Hence GFA is wrecked. Not by UK, but by US thwarting WTO.

If the UK imposes tariffs, etc. that force Ireland to install a hard border and thus screw the peace, the UK bears no responsibility whatever for doing so?

the UK bears no responsibility whatever for doing so?

Johnson's Government of liars and cheats will spin it as being someone else's fault.

The USA will always take Ireland's side against the UK for incredibly obvious reasons

Nkt according to Trump. He has been a no deal supporter since the referendum in 2016. Trying to trash the WTO seems to support that.

If the UK imposes tariffs, etc. that force Ireland to install a hard border and thus screw the peace, the UK bears no responsibility whatever for doing so?

If WTO loses its ability to enforce the most favoured nation principle, the 164 existing WTO members can pick and choose whatever they wish. No obligation for harmonisation of tariffs and border controls if WTO is thwarted by US.

With respect to the peace process argument I think the recent election result demonstrates that the leave voters are not in the slightest bit interested. Looks like Trump is not interested either as he is no deal supporter.

Mystery
Trump neither knows or cares about the GFA
but he knows that upsetting the Irish vote in the USA would cost him the presidency next year
he and his Irish descended civil servants will protect Ireland not Britain.

he and his Irish descended civil servants will protect Ireland not Britain

Why? What can Ireland offer US that UK can’t?

Shared history. The Irish made large parts of the USA.

In fact, there are more Americans of Northern Irish Protestant descent that of Southern Irish Catholic origins, but they mostly came earlier and assimilated more thoroughly, like the Armstrongs whose lad Neil became a spaceman.

In fact, there are more Americans of Northern Irish Protestant descent that of Southern Irish Catholic origins
Link please
as that does not ring at ALL true in places like Boston and New York and Philadelphia

Shared history. The Irish made large parts of the USA

Business is about going forward, not referring back to what happened hundreds of years ago. Can’t see the US giving up the chance to get their hands on the UK’s NHS just to please a small number of Irish.

UK made large parts of the entire globe (two thirds approximately), but many countries later chose to go independent.

Mystery
I do not know where in the world you live but its clearly not in the UK, Ireland or the USA

Nor have you read the historical interactions between the British, the Irish and the Irish who moved to America

UK made large parts of the entire globe (two thirds approximately), but many countries later chose to go independent.

If you are my age, that was still the story we were being stuffed with at school. Look at us, look at our Empire, even as we watched the evening news after school and saw another country lowering the Union Jack and running up another flag. They chose to go Independent because they saw it as occupation, and rape and pillage of their countries.

I am from the UK and have worked several times in the US. Never heard anyone in the US wave the Irish flag.

Only reference I ever to Ireland in my time in the US was that St. Patrick’s day was a good excuse for a party.

However, many references made to UK and US collaboration during the war and defeat of Nazi Germany.

Pelosi appears to think there are significant reasons for not shafting a peace process that the US were very involved in bringing about.
But anecdata is interesting, too...

Flag waving is hard to hear, unless you add bells to them.

MysteryTripAgain, Chicago celebrates St. Patricks day more than they do in Dublin.
There are millions of Irish descent Americans, including in the government.
Now whether or not they care about the GFA enough to block a trade deal that fucks it over is another matter.

Link Please

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans#History_of_the_term_Scotch-Irish

27M Americans of "Scots/Scotch-Irish" descent
30M "Irish-Americans" which includes quite a few of the above overlapping