Westminstenders: Election Special 3

[RedToothBrush]

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My suspicion is that Labour (like the Democrats in the US who aren't going to spot the lessons here in this election) are going to continue to make the same mistakes for some time yet.

As a centre / centre left remain voter I agree with your last post RTB that Corbyn went too far left.

In the recording of BJ talking to CCHQ in the early hours of the morning he boasted something along the lines of, "The Conservatives have won a mandate from every corner of this country"

It's yet more evidence that the only "country" that he thinks of is England

One Nation Conservatives my arse

Make that last two posts. Labour finds it hard to listen and it costs them.

Johnson pitched his speech well. As I didn’t wake up happy about it. Annoyed with Labour for losing.

RTB, my definition of 'Blairite' really doesn't matter.

And the people who are proposing this explanation of the result? Well, I would say their definition is ... flexible.

I'm just reporting back - because you guys will be interested.

I have my own thoughts - but I'm lots more interested in collecting those of others.

placemats I suspect your experience of membership is not uncommon.

Just on first and gut reaction to the result.

Although all in the UK as the state, there appear to be 3 very different countries with completely different results. With the larger always determining the future for the others. If that isn't a call for federalism, I don't know what is. NI has gone more centre. Second Alliance MP in hisory, I think and two SDLP. Scotland feels more centre, but I am sure Scots will come along to assess that. At the least, less Conservative (which is now quite right wing) and Labour which may feel quite left, but may be part of the circle that is so left in doctrine it may be beside far right. I'm not sure how to assess Wales. Maybe someone can explain that.

RTB

'My suspicion is that Labour (like the Democrats in the US who aren't going to spot the lessons here in this election) are going to continue to make the same mistakes for some time yet.'

Totally agree.

And that's why I keep asking about who, on here, is an actual member of Labour, that can vote on the new Leader?

Johnson pitched his speech perfectly in terms of what it says about his consideration of rUK. Just in case anyone was in any doubt...

Have just listened to Sturgeons speech re power to call IndyRef2

She was outstanding, I thought.

My suspicion is that Labour (like the Democrats in the US who aren't going to spot the lessons here in this election) are going to continue to make the same mistakes for some time yet

Completely agree. I cannot see them waking up just yet.

@LouiseCollins28
Fri 13-Dec-19 10:10:42
I am surprised at the scale of the Johnson win and I also want to say to all the people who I've been chatting to on here, most of whom so willed a different outcome, that I hope you are able to take care of yourselves and those you love and that I wish you all well.

That is a lovely comment and much appreciated after an awful lot of unpleasant gloating by the usual ploppers.

I'll be voting in the next Labour leadership election. I couldn't deal with it all last night so went to bed with a storm raging, which seemed appropriate. My blob on the map has stayed blue - virtually identical result to last time. Looking at other constituencies in my area though, it is clear that the opposition need to work together, and if they had been able to do that more successfully last night could have been different. The next Labour leader needs to be someone who can genuinely bring people together, which may mean someone more centrist than i'd ideally choose, but ideals have long gone out the window.

I'm a member of the Labour Party so I can vote in the next contest. I'll choose according to their pitches and I recognise that as things stand the Momentum direction isn't appreciated by many would be Labour voters. I realise the party must change tack significantly but I fear that the 'centre ground' will still disenfranchise many vulnerable people and they'll have little representation in parliament in the future. A very sad day for many who are struggling for perfectly legitimate reasons.

Two things: it might be well-meant, but hindsight isn't just a wonderful thing, it's an unaffordable luxury for some.

And f you're here to gloat, accept before you post that some of the folk on these threads have just had hope snatched away. The austere reconfiguration of the economy will now continue its divisive march, unchecked, and far too much potential and humanity will be grievously lost.

My emotional state today is 'furious', by the way.

I knew, all along, we were like 1WW soldiers, being sent over the top to complete annihilation, in a poorly conceived and executed battle.

The analogy I used was of infantry, storming across the No Man's Land, knowing the weather was faints us, the promised early morning bombardment of enemy lines hadn't happened, knowing the barbed wire and infantry was intact - and we were running straight at it.

Then hearing that bombardment from our own side start, and rain down on us as we reached the line of fire and the barbed wire.

So, yes, furious.

Cat my point about defining blairite was one not so much about how you personally define blairite and precisely more about how the definition of 'blairite' is a loose one and a bit of a shape-shifting boogeyman to stop self reflection within the party, to allow factionalist feuds to continue and to avoid facing up to some home truths.

Afternoon all. Hangover has settled down Gave up at about 2:15 last night - no point waiting for more after that.

No much to add, really. But a few thoughts ...

1. Quite a few seats that Cons took from Labour were done so without the need for the BXP to steal votes (i.e. Lab+BXP < Cons). There was something else at play too.

2. The mosaic of England has changed with a weird Leave/Remain overlay onto the rural/urban geography, however ....

3. With a majority as big as he has, Boris is pretty much master of all he surveys. Whether this means two fingers to the ERG pull of the party remains to be seen. If nothing else, he now has no excuse ...

and given that epoch changing shift, the possibilty - nay the necessity of a "Northern Powerhouse" suddenly looks much more sensible and practical.

4. Scotland ?

As someone who recalls the 83 and 87 elections, there is a terrible sense of deja vu here. But they did pave the way for 1997, and some of nuLabs generation defining policies.

Who knows ? This is a "make lemonade" moment, I'm afraid. If we set the bar for 2024 (assuming that things play out till then) as low as "at least we managed to not go to war with anyone"

What was the line from "Spinal Tap" ? Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation.

StarryGazyEyes and PeninsularPanic thanks for answering.

PeninsularPani I'm not gloating.
I worked myself ill during this GE. I'm really nowhere near gloating.

I'm only interested in 'hindsight' I'm so far as it's assessment as to how to move forwards - which I think we need to.

Absolutely agree with what you've written about 'Blairite', Red.

PMK.

How about 5) Northern Ireland?

knowing the weather was faints us

It was noted that despite the weather, turnout didn't seem much affected. Another little snippet to feed into the post mortem.

Unless the FTPA goes the way of all flesh, the next election is going to be in December too ? Could this be a new UK tradition ? No more head-scratching than having a year start April 5th ?