Westminstenders: Election Special 3

[RedToothBrush]

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Best I really, really don't know. ☹️

I honestly think we need a Leader who can tackle Momentum's dominance.

There are positives about Momentum - but their stranglehold in the direction of the Party is neat poison.

It means they don't compromise, listen, or reflect.

And without moderation, Labour are toxic - this result demonstrates it.

But Mimentum control the Party from CLP to Party machine.

I just don't see

A.) how a Leader that will take in Mimentum can get elected

B.) how they will be able to actually take on Momdntum

And, with Momentum steering the Party, we will lose the next election.

10 years.

And I am actually considering joining the Labour party for the 1st time ever

I'm going to vote for the candidate who I think has the support and resilience to at least moderate Momentum, I think.

Goodness knows who that is, at present.

I can see why people like Lisa Nandy - and there's an argument that says she has 'the magic touch' & can sell left-wing policies to her constituents (who are a demographic we need to reach).

But I am honestly not entirely convinced by that.

I think we need a candidate who makes it clear they want to reach beyond the Momentum base & will actively structure things to do that.

@Random 🙂

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html#

Can't really see this happening but it would be good if it did

Ignore that post - just realised article is from 2016

His manifesto - too much all at the one time. People don't really care who owns the utilities - they just want to be able to pay the leccie bill.

The too much all at once is true. It was such a long ( good) list. But too long -so wasn't believed. Pick one target for nationalisation - start with water?

Even the slogan " For the many..not the few" is too long.

We're a dumbed down society:.
•Three words max in a slogan. •Top 5 plans (?) maybe for manifesto marketing.

twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1205624364839755776

No-one has mentioned the terrorist attack on London Bridge, but I think it was significant. There were reports on it right through the election. I believe it made people less receptive to the very real fears over Islamophobia and made them feel less safe.

As for Owen Jones, just before the election, he was photographed with a young woman wearing a t-shirt with a slogan that mentioned Socialism, yet was misogynistic. We’re told it was a “joke” that young people seemed to understand.
He, and they, refuse to accept that, to most people, it was downright offensive.
He also says he didn’t know the woman, and whined about not being able to have fun in his time off. He doesn’t seem to have considered the possibility he was set up.
The election was not lost on one t-shirt, of course, but it does illustrate the stupidity and the refusal to consider any other viewpoint from activists like Owen Jones.

Random that initiative was really good. Under the EU citizens initiative if you get 1 million signatures you can ask the EU for a new law - it's open to all EU citizens.

Not enough enough people ( under 1 million) signed the petition. So under EU procedures it would have gone forwards -but as not enough signed it - it didn't proceed.

I guess a point comes (as DH said to me today) that you just have to accept that people just don't want It.

Making a commitment to cable the country for broadband would have been a good idea, so that it was accessible to each house. We expect this of water, electricity and sewage disposal, pretty much taking access for granted, but don't expect them to be free. There are still many countries in the world which don't do this as a matter of course.

I agree with cat and best that really good and experienced MPs and Labour people like Alastair Campbell have been sidelined (or expelled) or have themselves stepped back. It should have been possible to change/return to more radical ideas without this. Labour has been the poorer for their loss in terms of heavyweight thinkers and strategists.

I agree with the assessment of Corbyn's failures during the referendum campaign. He should have aligned Labour as remain and the leave campaign as an extremist Tory plot and powergrab. Some Labour leavers might have been persuaded.

I am more than angry with the LibDems and SNP for agreeing to this election. We are all paying the price.

I cannot see how Labour could have come up with easy slogans about Brexit. Easier but not 3 words. The Tory campaign was catchy because it is easy to oversimplify when you are happy to lie. This lot are ruthless powermongers who do not care about the truth because any means at all justifies the end.

I think that it is naive to thing lazy Boris Johnson will fight for a soft Brexit unless it is the easy option. It won't be. Cummings is a nihilist and running the show. New Tory MPs are much more extreme. One nation Tories were kicked out or have not stood again. The membership has been infiltrated and is effectively the Brexit party

I do want too see the analysis of where the Brexit party let in the Tory and also where they might have kept Labour in.

I thought in my own Constituency that the Brexit party might have siphoned off a good few Tory votes, but the results locally were negligible. Enough Tory voters much have actively switched to the LibDem.

It was David Cameron's fault that the referendum was brought in. He did this to appease the rebels in his party - 80 in total.

These are the MPs who voted for the Referendum

www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/oct/25/mp-voted-for-eu-referendum

And how many voted to trigger Article 50. Parliament doing that changed everything. Parliament took the advice of the advisory referendum.

I am astonished when watching interviews with people who turned Tory that they mention more police and then, the NHS and more hospitals and more nurses! It beggars belief! It seems the only thing that they recall about the 50000 more nurses id the pledge. Unfortunately mocking Nicky Morgan et al only served to put the number into voters' conscious.

They also often parrot out the Tory line that Labour cannot be trusted with the economy.

I just put £50 worth of food in the foodbank collection in Sainsburys. It was very full up. I am sad that I should feel that that is now the only way to help families in need. One of my students last week said that we didn't need to help the poor 'because there are foodbanks to do that'... A whole term of reading Christmas Carol and that's what she got out of it!

Breaking my vow never to have anything to do with politics again ... I just have to get this off my chest here because no one in my real life cares about politics.

I am furious with Sturgeon and Swinson because they more or less forced this GE upon us. The Opposition had Boris on the ropes and were close to having a Second Ref attached to their cooperation in passing the WA. Tory MPs with integrity put their careers on the line and sane Labour MPs were reigning Corbyn in. But the SNP were confident a GE would put them into a position to bargain/blackmail a second IndyRef and Swinson was bonkers enough to think she might be PM.

Of course it's backfired spectacularly - there is no chance of an IndyRef now and Swinson has entered political oblivion. So if the Scots want to know who to blame that they're leaving the EU, they need look no further than these two Scottish leaders. They blew it.

What concerns me is the left becoming more entrenched. Not changing. The right without any threat of opposition at all (even less than this election) is worrying.

The Tory campaign was catchy because it is easy to oversimplify when you are happy to lie.

Yes but you can't fight simplicity with complexity.

The slogans only one factor but short is best.

I was just looking up past party slogans on Google:

1979 Conservative

" Labour isn't working"

1979 National Front

It's our country. Let's win it back.

Remind you of anything?

Labour's 1997
Britain Deserves Better

That was good!

‘Britain deserves better’ is good

It’s funny my job used to be ‘a line’ and I worked with someone very like Cummings who would win at all cost

The Labour one was a gift to the Cons in the end as it was corrupted to fit with the anti Semitic line

Why would Sturgeon help England? Scotland is overwhelmingly SNP and doesn't want brexit. Expecting anything else is as ridiculous as the belief Sinn Fein should have taken their seats after 2017. Scotland and NI owe England nothing.

The Opposition had Boris on the ropes and were close to having a Second Ref attached to their cooperation in passing the WA

I was always very lukewarm about a second referendum for many reasons -

• anti EU media brainwashing over the last 20 years and the last 4 in particular has been thorough and is now intrenched.
• corruption of the first still not fully reckoned with and cannot be ruled out of a second.
• by no means clear that Remain would win. The margin was very close.

I think this election result indicates that Leave would have won a second referendum. I can’t prove it as it seems to have been anti Corbyn as much as anything, but that’s my hunch.

Theoliphant I disagree.

We needed an election. Johnson was not going to agree to a 2nd referendum. There was not the supporters in Parliament to win a vote.

Every little thing MPs did created more and more anger with the general public.

It was getting to the stage that they were probably at real risk of physical harm or worse.

It may have been different if they had the general public behind them but they didn't. Johnson did an excellent job of averting blame.

Brexit is still too difficult for us to understand- the reason it should never have been put to a vote.

So no, the Scottish people should not blame Swinson / Sturgeon for leaving the EU (even though they can blame them for a lot of other things) - they were fighting a losing battle.

And all this more people voted remain in this election than leave.

That's a null point entirely.

Labour must in some ways be relieved. their own supporters are so polarised over Brexit , they can hopefully fight a future campaign on core issues, and climate.

John McDonnell more or less just said that.

Did he, Piggy?

If he really did, that would be disgraceful.

There is nothing to be relieved about here.

This defeat is a disaster for people on low incomes or who need the NHS.

(2 groups I picked at random - there are many more.)

Can you link to where he has said this?