Westminstenders: Election Special 3

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I am astonished when watching interviews with people who turned Tory that they mention more police and then, the NHS and more hospitals and more nurses!

We've seen the apologists on these threads, and believe me, they will be the first 'pledges' to be reneged on.

I do agree that Swinson/Sturgeon should not have let the Tories have their election - the one that Boris Johnson was telling us only the other day that he didn't want. Well, S & S did, and we will all pay the price. But I do think it will be a Tory fuck up - it will be difficult to blame the 'Remainer' MPs who have 'thwarted democracy'.

Our failed Tory candidate put out a leaflet two days before the election about how he voted Remain but didn't want 'to thwart democracy' but was utterly silent about the real attempt to thwart democracy by the prorogation of Parliament. I don't think he won many but the die-hard Tories over.

However, if any of you have ploughed through Frankopan's book The Silk Roads, what struck me then was how time and time again Empires crumbled because they became fat and bloated and something caught them off guard.

So, I watched the GE results with someone who said to me: 'This will be awful for so many people. I, personally, won't be affected ...'

And I replied: 'I will.'

Now, I get that she was trying to empathise but ... it's a huge problem.

My messages are full of discussion about how we can keep Labour socialist.

It is not full of people terrified about how they are going to manage for the next 5 years.

Because they're not necessarily in the same group.

That lack of overlap is a huge problem.

Labour have to put the people who need a Labour victory first.

Not the people who want a Labour victory but only so long as it is ideologically pure enough.

Lonelyplanetmum You still need a good message behind the soundbite.
As Early Years minister, Liz Truss wrote two reports, one entitled “More Great Childcare”. I think she may have called the other “Even More Great Childcare”, I forget now.

I thought at the time they were daft titles. Now I realise she was aiming at soundbite over substance. On that occasion, she failed: we liked neither title or content!

In 1997, Labour also used a very catchy popular tune: Things Can Only Get Better. Everyone was singing it!

No, he didn't say exactly that cat ... I inferred.

The trouble is, Cat, no-one- is bothering to find out about those who are terrified.

Sorry, I can't find a link. He went on to say basically that Labour was stuck between a rock and a hard place because it couldn't adopt a clear line on Brexit. I think he was trying to say that wasn't a strategy error ; it was just impossible to know who most to please. I guess he was saying more , let the Tories get on with it now and we (labour) can go back to focusing on the things that really matter. He mentioned climate change a lot. I was listening with half an ear but he definitely did seem pleased he did not have to deal with brexit.

He mentioned 'grotesque levels of inequlaity' as something that still needs to be fought.

caught on the horns of a dilemma was his expression. Own it and move on.

As I have mentioned on these threads I am politically right of centre but no gloating from me. I think Brexit was paralysing this country so even as a remainer I recognise that the situation was untenable.

Corbyn reminds me of Tony Benn who I always liked. A great backbencher but should never be let lose on the levers of power. I was particularly glad Tony Benn’s son followed him into politics

I think Boris benefitted from his semi-celebrity status. He wasn’t just a politician he was good ol’ Boris who has messy hair etc. It created a very benign persona for him to hide behind.

Cat is absolutely right about Alistair Campbell understanding of the media. You don’t win hearts and minds by punching people in the face when the disagree with you. The vitriol directed at Tories on some threads on this site has been utterly counterproductive.

This country needs a strong opposition so I really do hope that Labour can deal with Momentum quickly and effectively.

I am originally from Blyth Valley and go back to visit family often. I saw a clip on Twitter once from Channel 4 news where Leave voters in Blyth were being interviewed, the vile comments btl towards these people who were poor and uneducated made me furious. I thought, have same empathy, put yourself in their shoes and maybe you would have voted Leave too in the hope of more money for a region which has been ignored for decades or for the hope for a brighter future. The lack of understanding for people like this from those on the centre and left, their demonisation, continually being called stupid, fascists etc has backfired massively. Also, thinking that everyone who works for a salary is working class whether it is a doctor or a cleaner is deluded.

Some lifelong family and friends who voted Leave didn't vote Labour in this election, most didn't bother to vote at all. Their reasons were purely about Brexit and the Labour Party not respecting the result of the referendum and therefore in their view not respecting them.

I am sad that good, working class people have felt let down by Labour and hope they come back.

Where do you go now if you are a lefty liberal? It looks like the Northern "working class nationalist" electorate is the one the parties will play for. I understand the feeling of not being heard but I still don't think a Conservative government has got much to offer this group beyond the "Get Brexit Done" slogan. Do we just have to accept it's not our time and wait it out? My DC are in primary school. I can't believe the rest of their education will be under a Tory government.

I joined the Labour Party this morning in a probably futile attempt to influence the leadership election.

And by lefty liberal, I mean I want an equal, fair society with good public services for all, but I also want an openness with the rest of the world and I'm pro immigration.

Their reasons were purely about Brexit and the Labour Party not respecting the result of the referendum and therefore in their view not respecting them.

We will have to hope that Johnson makes a complete mess of Brexit and they realise that Johnson doesn't respect them either. Where will that leave them though?

My worry with Johnson is, what else will he destroy? Things which a majority of us still value like public services, health care.

I understand the feeling of not being heard but I still don't think a Conservative government has got much to offer this group beyond the "Get Brexit Done" slogan

Tackling the social issues?
Improving housing?
Local issues?
Local planning and consulting local people with devolved Government listening to local people?
Improving infrastructure
Providing opportunity and removing barriers?

Doesn't sound like the Tories we know....but we'll see if a party can change?

And by lefty liberal, I mean I want an equal, fair society with good public services for all, but I also want an openness with the rest of the world and I'm pro immigration.

Me too, and it ought not to be too much to ask.

Although I am downhearted, if we had managed a hung Parliament and got a People's Vote, I am quite sure that the propaganda machine would have rolled into action and Remain would probably have lost. Now Johnson has to try to get a deal, and he is between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't get a deal and he f*cks the economy. He does get a deal and stays more aligned with the EU. And no, I don't think Trump, even if or when he gets in again, will come to his rescue - he doesn't like losers, and Johnson will be a loser.

(Am I just whistling in the dark?)

Dippy I feel unpresented too, there loads of us. Blair was good at capturing all that central ground. He had a landslide.

I worry about Labour sliding further into obscurity.

I'd like all those things chomolunga but I can't see the Tory party supplying any of them. I suspect the new intake of MPs are largely headbangers who stood only on a pro-Brexit platform so I don't see them or the party membership or the big donors supporting a radical change in the agenda.

Sorry, chomolungma

Still can't get it right!

Doesn't sound like the Tories we know....but we'll see if a party can change?

Certainly not the current Tories. The 1950s Tories, maybe. After all MacMillan did build loads of Council houses and none of the 1950s Tories undid the Health service.

Stephen Kinnock was very good on QT last night. He’s incandescent about the Momentum take over. It seems to me that the only way to wrest their fingers off the party is to join in the hope that they are overwhelmingly out numbered. I’m seriously thinking about rejoining and getting involved. There needs to be a real clear out of the stables, starting with Jon Landsman.

What will their next slogan be for the next election?

Fuck the poor harder

Its not as catchy but I'm sure thats what the content will be.

Thanks for entertaining me and keeping me sane/crazier than I thought possible but I'm now heading back to lurker status because there is absolutely nothing left for me to say

Brexit - who gives a fuck what we think or want anymore this will be done to us, our kids and our grand kids by people who neither have a clue or give a shit about how the poor and disabled are now going to survive the next 5 years with further erosion of our schools, health service and justice system. I hope those working class/poor that voted really feel the pips getting squeaked, its a pain I will feel right along with them but fuck them they neither deserve or will get an ounce of compassion out of me.

Thank you for all that you do on this thread guys you inform and educate those who need to be and those who refuse to be

Blair was good at capturing all that central ground. He had a landslide.

No, he had Murdoch

that voted Tory*

Will people ever realise that the "don't call me stupid, I did a stupid thing purely because people called me stupid and if you keep saying the things I do are stupid I will do more stupid things in the future just to show you because it is more important to me that you suffer for telling me my choices are stupid than that I make good choices" doesn't really hold up as an argument?

I've never cried because of an election result before

I have just emerged from under the bedclothes after the night of the election.

I thought, "oh well - start getting yourself up to date with the Westminstenders threads" and on the first page of this one was the above quote.

And in all my life I, too, have never cried because of an election result.

I am still stunned, actually. I cannot get my mind past this.

In 5 years time, we will have an even older population on average.
Will social care be solved?