Westminstenders: Election Special 3

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I seriously hope the message isn't "It needs a man" to get the job done. As a campaigner I think Johnson has clearly proven superior to May (not hard!) but as PM? Jury still well out for me, I'd still think of May as more competent and more trustworthy even now.

Wonder if there will be a post election reshuffle? Who he promotes could give some signs of how much meaning there is behind the "One Nation" rhetoric from Johnson.

mini reshuffle on Monday apparently louise

I think a line across the country from Crewe is where I'd say the birth begins. It's north of Nottingham and coming up to Chesterfield / Sheffield. I'd go with that!

A poem for these tough times : Alternative Anthem by John Agard

Leclerc / 54321 says hello.
When he sends me a picture of his new cat I'll post it

Oh.. try again

Many southerners think the North begins at the Watford Gap!

Imo, Crewe and Nottingham are the midlands. the North begins at Sheffield.

It will not be a mini reshuffle because known scalps will go. Why hang on to them?

I was chatting to a friend today
of Welsh mining extraction, who used to deliver copies of the Socialist Worker in the pit villages and still votes Labour
Corbyn is too arrogant and stubborn and surrounded by people who suck up to him. He deserved to lose

THE NORTH
London is the North from here

If Corbyn is not gone by Sunday night, the Tories will dine out on the carcass of the party

Nottingham is East Midlands
Crewe is North West.

I'm hoping for a full blown shuffle!

Staffordshire is not the North

That said to a Scot, Newcastle is South!

The NW starts just after junction 15 of the M6. One side of the road is Staffordshire and the remains of the ancient woodland that goes to Cannock and beyond. One the other is Cheshire. Cheshire is NW. Crewe is in Cheshire.

You watch NW tonight in Crewe and Midlands tonight (?) in Stoke.

I love the sign on the M1 that says "The North" "The South" pointing in the same direction

I really don't get why Bozo would necessarily shift to a more moderate position now, bearing in mind that he is an unprincipled empty vessel whose only concern is himself. Yes, he's no longer in hock to the ERGers. But, since he purged most of the moderates, and all survivors had to pledge allegiance to Brexit, the indications are not in a conciliatory direction. And furthermore I assume he'll want to keep his new voters onside: pretty much by definition, these switchers will be the ones most invested into NoDeal-GloriousBritanniaRulesTheWaves-ForeignersOut.

London is the North from here
My friend is from Devonshire. He likes to grumble we're all northerners to him

Oh and Nottingham is East Midlands

I do not trust Boris Johnson one inch and I doubt whether he is really all that interested in his new Tory voters in the north. If he did put money in, I think we would all welcome it, but actions speak louder than words.

I console myself that the Referendum was a Tory project, it killed Cameron's political career, damaged May, and will probably damage Johnson in due course. And it's now wholly a Tory Brexit - so either Johnson rows back and gives us more of a Brexit in name only, which many of us would be able to live with, or he messes it up completely, and will find it very difficult to apportion blame.

I really don't get why Bozo would necessarily shift to a more moderate position now, bearing in mind that he is an unprincipled empty vessel whose only concern is himself. Yes, he's no longer in hock to the ERGers. But, since he purged most of the moderates, and all survivors had to pledge allegiance to Brexit, the indications are not in a conciliatory direction. And furthermore I assume he'll want to keep his new voters onside: pretty much by definition, these switchers will be the ones most invested into NoDeal-GloriousBritanniaRulesTheWaves-ForeignersOut.

Johnson has promised the moon on a stick to everyone.

He can't deliver it all.

Mainly because some of it is contrary and some of it out right ignores reality.

Crewe is in Cheshire?? I pride myself on general knowledge and I thought Crewe was Staffs

these switchers will be the ones most invested into NoDealGloriousBritanniaRulesTheWaves-ForeignersOut.

I don't agree. I imagine loads are the 'I really, really can't cope with the ongoing agony and uncertainty of this interminable hell of dragging Brexit out. Let's just get it done. Whatever it takes to get past the impasse.'

I have sympathy for that position in a way as the will we, won't we, extension, extension, extension is exhausting and stressful. Something needed to give at some point. This GE was the tipping point for many people who were just utterly, utterly fed up of the whole stalemate. Even if they know the next stage might take ages, they just want to get to that stage.

I seriously hope the message isn't "It needs a man" to get the job done. As a campaigner I think Johnson has clearly proven superior to May (not hard!) but as PM? Jury still well out for me, I'd still think of May as more competent and more trustworthy even now.

I would hope so too. But what in the behaviour of team Boris and his ilk makes anyone think they wouldn't push this as a "message" if it suited their aims ? If the past few years have taught us anything, it's how easy it is to drown out reason with emotion. It may come to nothing, but I would guess there are a lot of men (and women) out there who would quite happily allow themselves to be told the lesson to be learned from the deification of Boris is that women just aren't cut out for office. We are nowhere near as far from the "little woman indoors" mentality as we should be. As a daily - if not hourly - trawl of this very website would show.

(Thanks to Louise for hands across the ocean )

Labour needs to stick with a transformative redistributive agenda as per current manifesto -real change/hope - tinkering around the edges is not enough. Blair / Brown investment and good initiatives like Surestart, minimum wage were cut by the Tories after 2010. Structural and regional inequalities remain from the 80s, terrible infrastructure, traditional indusry replaced by low wage jobs and zero hour contracts. Is this what people blame Blair for?
Many people this time didn't believe the manifesto. They think politicians are not competent and promise things which are not possible. They do not trust politicians to do what they promise.
A new Labour leader needs to be statesmanlike but not elitist. This can be a contradiction - something to do with our class system.

• To be seen as a potential PM, they need to play the game - sing the bloody national anthem, attend Privy Council... Don't give the right wing media ammunition. There will be a ton of anti left wing lies bias anyway.

They need to understand -the real world and lives of traditional Labour voters.

• the needs of often young and more highly educated voters in cities like Bristol and London.

Who in Labour can be this leader?

RTB Problem is, he literally doesn't care about any of that - lies, false promises, whatever. He just brazenly carries on regardless. Clutching at straws, I agree that he could possibly shift to a softer position. Just that he could equally not.

Can Andy Burnham come back at any point? I know he's not an MP . It's kind of wishful thinking.