Westminstenders: The Undecideds

[RedToothBrush]

Apparently the pollsters are nervous.

There are far more undecided than there have been at this stage in recent general election.

This makes it a hugely fine line between a hung parliament and a massive tory majority.

The weather on Thursday isn't expected to be nice and this could affect turnout. The blue corner are particularly nervous about this, but don't forget those postal votes.

Whatever happens on Thursday at least this election campaign is nearly over. And that can't be a bad thing.

And Christmas is in a fortnight so we can all drown our sorrows or celebrate in style.

You always have time to restock the drinks if you end up resort to them on Thursday

(New election special thread on Thursday rather than bunging up Westminstenders BTW)

Red. I wouldn't do it for twice the money. ☹️

I know people who are, and who are standing because they are wholly committed to trying to make things better for others.

And I admire them.

But me? No way.

I don't think we are chastising - but is it acceptable that anyone has dog shit posted through their letter box? Where are the complaints when it's a black or Asian family who have to put up with this?

As for putting in applications to stand at the next election - no, although I have been approached to stand as a local councillor, and don't feel I have the time to do the job justice. But I do my bit slogging round delivering leaflets and letters, with some more to do today, despite the fact that it's raining. I will also be doing two telling stints on Thursday, sitting in the draughty doorway of a Community Centre. If the Presiding Officer is kind, we will be able to sit in the vestibule; if not, we will be out in the cold and rain.

Nice Ken Loach Labour ad

twitter.com/i/status/1204384139232849920

I take it all those chastising are putting in applications to stand for election at the next available opportunity...

For my part, I wasn't chastising. However I feel abandoned because how will moderates ever have a voice now if they all quit?

A huge thank you to the regular posters on Westminsterenders. I think I've read this thread everyday since Feb/ March. So educational and so heartening to find thoughtful and knowledgeable 'ordinary' people.

The polls indicate a win (possibly close) for JS here in East Dunbartonshire. It's between her and the SNP. Very little evidence of campaigning here.

I can't decide whether to try to hope the polls are wrong and we'll get a hung parliament or brace now for the horror of a Con majority and spare myself crushing disappointment on Friday.

Anyone see Newsnight last night? EM demanding to know how many hospitals JC has visited during the campaign. Such a frustrating interview. Save campaign analysis for after the election. So unhelpful.

I can't believe how naive I used to be about media bias. DH doesn't believe me but it gives me the rage now. Even quite subtle things like the way the current gov't is presented as the default. 'Boris needs to win x, y, seats etc'. And my pet hate is presenters taking it as a given that the labour manifesto is "radical" and "expensive".

No, it's not acceptable, Peregrina, but I think you're wrong about no-one protesting about it happening to Black and Asian people.

People did complain - and still do. And thanks to pressure, we now have a legal category of hate crimes.

Sadly, I think we have that work of recognition, acknowledgment, social opprobrium and then specific legal recognition to come with regards to political violence.

It was an important step to get hate crimes recognised in law. It required a lot of work.

It's an interesting analogy.

I think we're in denial as to what is happening to politics in the UK.

I've been approached on a number of occasions to stand locally. I've considered it. I don't want the barrage of online abuse and the real life bullying that others in our area get. Maybe that makes me weak. At this point in my life I can't face it.

Oh, this is just so awful to hear.

Sadly, I think we have that work of recognition, acknowledgment, social opprobrium and then specific legal recognition to come with regards to political violence.

Yes, you are right here. I don't recall the advice to make sure you only campaign in at least groups of three before for example.

And thanks to pressure, we now have a legal category of hate crimes.

But we have a Prime Minister, who happily likens Muslim women to letterboxes and talks of black people as smiling piccaninnies and still people make excuses for him.

These accounts of violence and abuse are so concerning. I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to stand.

R4 reporting no growth in British economy in October "or the two months before it".

Glad the NHS is getting more coverage now. However, cons will claim the only way to improve it is to improve our economy by getting B done. No interviewer ever seems to counter this with the reports demonstrating how much BJ's Brexit will damage the economy.

As for putting in applications to stand at the next election - no, although I have been approached to stand as a local councillor, and don't feel I have the time to do the job justice.

You mean like everyone else who doesn't have time and does. Friend who is a local Councillor has a full time job, 2 kids under ten and volunteers for two other things. His wife works part time including some weeks.

He didn't want to do it but no one else would either.

They were all too busy too.

Borough councillors get I think it's £20,000 so if you have a family and a mortgage that's not particularly viable to do as your only job if you are a in a profession.

That leaves retirees or people on lower incomes or don't have professional jobs or have flexible lives in order to be able to attend evening meetings. It's not exactly family friendly.

I kind of get tired of the whole 'I don't have time stuff' given DHs position too. He was working 60 hour weeks, a two hour daily commute, including foreign travel and regular trips to London. As well as running scouts and volunteering for several other things. And having a pre schooler who he didn't spend a lot of evenings and weekends with as a result of his commitments.

He asks parents to help with scouts once a year and the complaints and excuses he has seen in past are pathetic.

I have come to the conclusion that everyone has busy lives, it's just that some people are more willing to sacrifice their precious family time than others with the attitude that its someone else responsibility not theirs.

It doesn't help that younger people are financially more strained and have longer commutes than 20 or 30 years ago either. Or that both parents now have to work more often than in previous decades.

I personally wish that councillors and MPs got paid more to make it a viable job to do as a stand alone in comparison with other jobs with such levels of responsibility.

Why on earth do we tolerate the purse strings of social care and vulnerable children to part timers doing something on the side?

It doesn't sit right with me.

And why are we having meetings in antisocial evenings to accommodate this absurdity?

I tire with it more and more.

The number of people who say 'oh I couldn't do that, I know nothing about politics or I'm not experienced enough' as if the people doing it are somehow better than them.

I am very very jaded after nearly 4 years of this nonsense.

Oh and I forgot. If you are a lib Dem you have to pay a percentage of your council salary to the party as part of their funding structure. So LD councillors take home less than Labour and Conservative councillors.

R4 reporting no growth in British economy in October "or the two months before it".

Wait until the November figures hit. I see it at the sharp end, across multiple industries and November was like a bad February instead of one of the busiest months of the year.

I don't think those who stand are a 'better' category.

I know people who stand.

I'm just not willing to do it.

Actually, I guess they are 'better' than me in some moral value scales!

Ouch.

That's a painful revelation.

But I agree with the implication that the bars to participation need to be removed. They really do.

It really shouldn't require such grinding levels of commitment.

You mean like everyone else who doesn't have time and does.

No, but if you knowingly take on a job and know that you can't discharge the duties, that is IMO wrong. We have had enough time serving councillors for me to not wish to add another.

You make some good points above, but wrapped up in a tirade doesn't help. You don't know what other people are doing with their time. You don't know how much they are commuting weekly, or what other commitments they have. You might well find that someone doesn't feel they would be useful as a Councillor but is out each weekend as a Street pastor, or helping in the Local foodbank, or a local soup kitchen or driving people to hospital appointments.

Shops really not busy.
In December?
That's bad.
2 local gift type shops closing after xmas.

And you absolutely shouldn't be having to think about the safety of yourself and your family.

Which many have to, now.

Panic buttons in houses and security detail on the school run?

That's not right.

I have come to the conclusion that everyone has busy lives

Sounds like a 32 hour week in a decade while retaining equal pay seems like a good idea

It doesn't help that younger people are financially more strained and have longer commutes than 20 or 30 years ago either. Or that both parents now have to work more often than in previous decades.

Labour are planning for the future and a 10p/h and the green economic deal is the right choice so that the country isnt so south east centric

I can see why you're angry, Red. But I think people on these threads generally do know, and have made informed choices.

If I tried to become an MP they would drag out so many skeletons from a misspent and abused/abusive past wouldnt be fair on the people or the party I'd want to represent, whether I've grown up and learnt some valuable lessons to enable me to move on from it but my past would stop any future from that point forward

tbh red that level of activities doesn't sound healthy.
I used to volunteer quite a bit but had to tone it down for my own mental health.

I get upset about people who talk about 'political activists' as though we are some distinct category of people.

'Political activists should do this, do that, do more, do less.'

It's poison and lazy thinking.

Political activists are just you and me, giving up their time (of which they have no more or less than other people), and not really gaining anything. Just motivated and concerned.

But it's a subtle form of 'othering'.

You start off by not realising a 'political activist' is just a weird name for your neighbour, you move on to investing them with super-powers (they are more politically informed/involved than normal people; they know what's going on, they're in on a big secret, they're responsible) and ... next thing you know - 'they' deserve all 'they' get!

And that's just activists.

It's a million times worse for people who actually take on a role.

People expect them to fulfill their wildest, most contradictory expectations.

And see them as legitimate targets for horrendous bullying (and murder, ultimately).

It's an absolutely massive problem.

And I know the heroic answer is for all of us to throw ourselves forwards, and not be deterred from actively taking part in politics.

And that this active deterring of many people from taking part is not wholly accidental - and needs to be actively challenged.

But ... no. It's too much.

Just 'If I tried to become an MP they would drag out so many skeletons from a misspent and abused/abusive past wouldnt be fair on the people or the party I'd want to represent, whether I've grown up and learnt some valuable lessons to enable me to move on from it but my past would stop any future from that point forward'

Yes.
I think this is all wrong and has to change.

.