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Brexit

Westminstenders: Manifesto or Bust?

982 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/11/2019 17:44

The Brexit Party aren't doing one.

The Labour Party apparently can't afford theirs.

The Conservatives will just lie anyway.

And the LDs got upstaged by Prince Andrew's resignation from royal duties for being a fuckwit.

3 weeks to go...

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FadingStar · 24/11/2019 17:16

What do you think of the Tory manifesto? On the BBC news just now they were in a mining town in northern England (apologies I cannot remember the name) but it had a large Leave majority and the people they interviewed seemed to see Johnson like the Second Coming.Confused

I don't see anything about replacing ESF funding which was promised in the last manifesto and never materialised.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/11/2019 17:24

On the BBC news

On the state broadcaster more Tory propaganda was fed to the masses

FadingStar · 24/11/2019 17:27

Yes Poster the bias was as transparent as my front window! 🤬

They had one guy who said he wouldn't vote Tory but was loathe to vote for Corbyn. The interviewer said so you won't vote Labour? And he goes...I'm a member of the Labour Party!🤦🏻‍♀️

CendrillonSings · 24/11/2019 17:28

On the state broadcaster more Tory propaganda was fed to the masses

All of a sudden you’re against a nationalised industry? Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/11/2019 17:28

Oh I'm sure those whove quoted the IFS on Labours manifesto must surely want to hear what the IFS said about the Tory manifesto right?

The Conservative Party manifesto: An initial response from IFS Director Paul Johnson
Below we outline an initial response from IFS Director Paul Johnson on the Conservative Party manifesto. We take policy areas by turn but this is not a full assessment. A fuller assessment from IFS researchers is due shortly.

Responding to the Conservative party manifesto, IFS Director Paul Johnson said:

"If the Labour and Liberal Democrat manifestos were notable for the scale of their ambitions the Conservative one is not. If a single Budget had contained all these tax and spending proposals we would have been calling it modest. As a blueprint for five years in government the lack of significant policy action is remarkable.

"In part that is because the chancellor announced some big spending rises back In September. Other than for health and schools, though, that was a one-off increase. Taken at face value today’s manifesto suggests that for most services, in terms of day-to-day spending, that’s it. Health and school spending will continue to rise. Give or take pennies, other public services, and working age benefits, will see the cuts to their day-to-day budgets of the last decade baked in."

"One notable omission is any plan for social care. In his first speech as prime minister Boris Johnson promised to 'fix the crisis in social care once and for all'. After two decades of dither by both parties in government it seems we are no further forward."

"On the tax side the rise in the National Insurance threshold was well trailed. The ambition for it to get to £12,500 may remain, but only the initial rise to £9,500 has been costed and firmly promised. Most in paid work would benefit, but by less than £2 a week. Another £6 billion would need to be found to get to £12,500 by the end of the parliament. Given the pressures on the spending side that is not surprising."

"Perhaps the biggest, and least welcome, announcement is the 'triple tax lock': no increases in rates of income tax, NICs or VAT. That’s a constraint the chancellor may come to regret. It is also part of a fundamentally damaging narrative – that we can have the public services we want, with more money for health and pensions and schools – without paying for them. We can’t."

ListeningQuietly · 24/11/2019 17:30

TBH I've not even read the Tory manifesto as the Unicorns kept leaping off the page at me Grin

GhostofFrankGrimes · 24/11/2019 17:32

I don't think the ink was dry on the last Tory manifesto before they disowned it Grin

tobee · 24/11/2019 17:38

bellini if you seriously think there are plenty of Corbyn lovers on here you can't be reading with an unbiased mind.

People would like you to vote rather than spoil your ballot because people are desperate for any vote that helps the likelihood of a Johnson majority.

But, while I would try to persuade people to vote constructively, I defend your right to spoil your ballot if you want to do so.

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 17:40

Thank you@tobee .
I would love to positively vote for someone. But I can't.

tobee · 24/11/2019 17:40

Thanks . I wonder why so many people were driven to vote Leave ...

I just don't get that argument. I think that would be leave voters not taking responsibility for how they voted in the referendum. Looking to blame others?!

tobee · 24/11/2019 17:42

I know you didn't vote leave btw bellini.

tobee · 24/11/2019 17:43

Hi Bercows I've missed you!

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 17:44

'Course I fucking didn't @tobee . It would be an easy choice if I had.Smile

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 17:46

What I was trying to get at @tobee , is the sanctimonious "I'm right, you are obviously stupid if you don't agree with what I say" attitude.

tobee · 24/11/2019 17:47

Btw, was thinking when talking to ds about postal vote, is the deadline for proxy voting the same?

Hope everyone's done their postal vote application that wants to do so. You have to do it by post,I believe, so they need to be posted 1st Class tomorrow at the latest I suggest.

ContinuityError · 24/11/2019 17:50

"One notable omission is any plan for social care. In his first speech as prime minister Boris Johnson promised to 'fix the crisis in social care once and for all'”

Didn’t Johnson promise that a new social care policy was going to be included in the manifesto during the Ch4 debate with Corbyn?

tobee · 24/11/2019 17:50

I think that's (usually) anger brought on by desperation bellini?

Anyway, thankfully we (currently Confused) live in a country where we can vote without people looking over our shoulders with great big uzis to check we are voting "in the required manner".

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 24/11/2019 17:56

I live in a very very very very, i cannot impress on you enough how, very safe tory seat

So unless i vote tory i can do what i like with my ballot...it wont count, its ‘wasted’

Except no vote is wasted...and neither, I believe , is spoiling your vote. As long as its properly spoilt...and not just as speller Smile

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 17:58

My approach RufusthebewiIderedreindeer . If I voted Labour in a safe Tory seat, not sure how that is less wasted than a spoiled ballot.

Stinkyeddie · 24/11/2019 17:58

I feel for you bellini I really do
I'm voting labour simply because we actually have a decent non corbynista candidate.
Life, sadly, is not as black and white as some people think.
💐

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 17:59

tobee , I've lived and worked in a country where spoiling your ballot was an act of rebellion- there were Kalashnikovs around.

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 18:01

Thanks @Stinkyeddie . Our candidate is also a decent non- Corbynistas. But on the wrong side of a local eco debate. I'd vote for him if he were on the right side.

mybrainhurtsalot · 24/11/2019 18:09

My feeling is that even in very very safe seats it’s best to vote for a proper alternative. Another party increasing their vote share can make others think that it is worth voting and in time maybe it will become a slightly less safe seat. I know someone in a very safe Tory seat who voted Monster Raving Looney Party which just seems like a waste to me - Labour were about 10k behind, but it used to be 15k...

Regarding spoiling the ballot paper, I remember reading that when the results are very close/tied the returning officer (?) will inspect the spoilt ballots to see if any can be legitimately claimed by one or other of the tied parties. Perhaps spoiling your ballot but indicating your least worst preference would be prudent, then in case of an unforeseen tight vote it might sway the balance in the way you find least objectionable.

mybrainhurtsalot · 24/11/2019 18:12

Or I’ve heard the argument for voting for a smaller party to give the candidate a chance of retaining their deposit, so maybe some value in voting MRLP after all.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 24/11/2019 18:14

There is no "weird concerted effort" to stop you from doing anything whatever (including boiling your head in an old fish-saucepan if that is what you want to do) that I can see, bellinisurge. It's just that you keep coming here and posting over and over again that you intend to spoil your vote and dislike all the parties for one reason and another, and every so often people are going to rise to that bait and say that they think it is a waste of a vote which our grandmothers and great-grandmothers fought and strove to get for us, or try to point out that your reasons are not necessarily good ones.

I come here for information and interest, myself. I wouldn't come back if I despised the thread and everybody on it; I would go to "I'm watching", remove it from the list there, and pay it no more nevermind.

(I don't think the comments here are likely to be concerted, in any case; or at least, nobody has yet sent me a message asking me to post agreeing with her. Perhaps I am just a hopeless outsider until I have proved myself with many years of posting, or something.)