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Brexit

Brexit Arms: the discussion continues....

976 replies

XingMing · 17/11/2019 21:30

I'm not promising to be the resident landlady, and I can't even hope to moderate the discussion or offer up great memes etc because I don't know how, but here's opening the next iteration....

First drink is on the house.

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dirtyrottenscoundrel · 24/11/2019 18:49

So.......are we all ready for Christmas? 😊

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 18:50

As for the "spoiling my ballot " thing. I'm not encouraging everyone to do it. In my constituency, I feel I have no choice.
I was just talking my lifelong Labour supporting/more into social justice than I am DH from voting Tory [the horror!]. We are that stuck here. Naturally, I said that it was his choice and he should do what he feels is the right thing.

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 18:51

@dirtyrottenscoundrel , naturally. I'm a prepper, don't forget Grin

XingMing · 24/11/2019 18:52

Good heavens, I've been AWOL so long and the conversation moves on apace. Apologies, there's a batch of roast potatoes that got missed at lunch that are a bit crunchy (as I like them best really) so fill yer boots.

Jezbollah's bribe to 50-s born women (I stand to benefit) seems to have missed its mark, or is that because there are no women over 60 still working in the media? All shuffled out as no longer young and pretty.

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EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 18:56

I agree, I think it’s such a shame Bear, 😔 I understand that everyone has a lens through which they view, their lives, their jobs, their world and their political position. We all do what we do (well most of us anyway) with no malign intention. We want what we believe to be the best for ourselves and our country, how we achieve that, and who is right on that, is of course always open to debate, as it should be. But to resort to personal attacks and shutting people down, for the simple disdain of a view that differs to yours is just petty, shortsighted and achieves the exact opposite of what the aggressor appears to want the outcome of the aggressive ‘intervention’ to be.

No politician is a hero, not a single one deserves our undying devotion, because that way trouble lies, and we currently exist in a political sphere, in which ( to me anyway) spoiling ballots seems to be a legitimate and fair option for some, and quite a reasonable stance (to me anyway) if you find yourself on the ‘wrongside’ of the issue.

All options are on the table. No one is right, No one is wrong, we are all just making choices with the cards we have on the table. I just wish people could be more human and less twitter. Attacking people for picking a different ‘card’ to you, is just shit.

I do however, as always, reserve the right to defend myself on here against such attacks from some, and the right of others here to do the same. I consider myself a reasonable human being, but I will not be told what to do, or insulted by others for seeing things differently. And that is why I like the arms, because on that at least, if nothing else, we can all agree. 😊✊🍻

EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 19:04

“As for the "spoiling my ballot " thing. I'm not encouraging everyone to do it. In my constituency, I feel I have no choice.”

Totally understand this position, and it is entirely your right to make that choice. I am a believer that those who fought for votes, actually fought for ‘choice’ to have a voice. They had no ‘choice’ or voice at the time, they gave us all that, and I am eternally grateful to them. One day, I may find myself politically homeless, and I reserve the option to spoil my Ballot too should I ever need to. I have turned up to every opportunity to vote so far, so if I spoil it one day, it will be for good reasons (in my eyes) and that is true democracy imo because it is a ‘Choice’ and that is what I was given.

bellinisurge · 24/11/2019 19:07

@EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit , when I lived and worked in the Soviet Union, spoiling your ballot was an act of rebellion. Because you were expected to vote for the only candidate; basically, endorsing them because THEY SAID SO. And you got access to nice food stuffs on the other side of the voting booth. I kid you not.

EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 19:14

Fuck me Bellini. Scary stuff...

It’s one of my greatest worries, losing our grip on true and fair democratic ballots. And in that, I include the opt out option. Voting (or not) should always be fully autonomous and without fear, always.

howabout · 24/11/2019 19:15

With spoiling your ballot I think it's a perfectly reasonable choice. If you can't make a positive choice for any of the options then it makes sense to opt for none of the above and leave it to others who feel strongly enough to vote For or Against one option in particular.

I know someone who has been right royally shafted by WASPI changes and changes to Widows benefit and qualifying NI years for State pension. However as they are currently eeking out their savings for another couple of years till they each retirement age I think Labour's macro policy may have a bigger impact on their savings than any lipservice compensation they may get.

They may well see it differently though and since it affects them and not me that is their choice.

Bearbehind · 24/11/2019 19:15

I will admit I did consider spoiling my ballot paper but I just think if everyone did it then we’d never move on

XingMing · 24/11/2019 19:16

Epic, I feel that we have ended up in The Arms because we wanted a discussion rather than a lecture. And that is what happens here; you can wish to remain, but as long as you remain willing to discuss your viewpoint, and why you hold it, and are willing to defend, or change it if you read a better argument, then it's not an echo chamber.

I don't enjoy the WA or Westminsterender threads because of the slavish Momentum element. They strike me as the Khmer Rouge of our day. For fiction readers, currently reading a re-released novel from Peter May (the Noble Path) which is about the horrifying "purification" back to the stone age society that the Khmer Rouge wanted to create in Cambodia/Kampuchea in the late 1970s. Ideology is something to avoid.

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dirtyrottenscoundrel · 24/11/2019 19:16

bellinisurge Grin

Saucery · 24/11/2019 19:18

more human and less twitter

EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 19:18

I fear we are seeing the very embryonic beginnings of that behaviour in this country already. I hide on a largely anonymous interest forum, because I fear the negative and angry reaction to my democratic choices, something I have already encountered in real life. We are not there yet by any stretch, but that shit always starts somewhere.

dirtyrottenscoundrel · 24/11/2019 19:20

I feel that we have ended up in The Arms because we wanted a discussion rather than a lecture

It’s definitely more laid back here. And it’s great to chat with people who have different views on Brexit without being fanatical or preachy.

dirtyrottenscoundrel · 24/11/2019 19:21

Yes. All they do is c&p stuff from twitter.

XingMing · 24/11/2019 19:26

I think I would talk to most people IRL, if I met them face to face, but I don't like being mugged as some muppet on the Internet, because they have read one post which didn't align exactly with their view.

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EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 19:28

“I will admit I did consider spoiling my ballot paper but I just think if everyone did it then we’d never move on”

Also a fair viewpoint, and not without it’s own merits, I can see how people get here though (especially in this climate) and I wholly support their right to take that option, because having any option at all (whatever that is), is something I hold so very dear in this country. I certainly prefer the Ballot spoiling I think, over staying at home and not bothering, because all though it makes no particular material difference, it enables the voter to enact their democratic option, and register that their spoil is not merely apathy, but an intense frustration at the lack of electable parties/persons. No one really reads them, we know that, but the voter has still turned up and has still been ‘counted’ as it were, to me, that is a vote in itself, a vote to NOT vote, if you like. Smile

XingMing · 24/11/2019 19:35

Spoiling the ballot paper, is in these times, a thoughtful decision. I don't like my options, because I like Labour's candidate best, for his intelligence and focus on the real issues, but I cannot get past my distaste for his party's politics and their spiel on what really matters at a national level.

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EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 19:39

“Epic, I feel that we have ended up in The Arms because we wanted a discussion rather than a lecture.”

Totes agree. And, if I may add, it goes without saying. Memes from @DustyDiamond ✊🌹🤡🍻

XingMing · 24/11/2019 19:41

He could want to be a constituency MP, in which case his lot is to help solve his constituent's life problems and change nothing, or sit on the front benches, where he will subordinate his view to party policies.

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DustyDiamond · 24/11/2019 19:43

Memes from @DustyDiamond**

...you called...!

😂😂

Brexit Arms: the discussion continues....
XingMing · 24/11/2019 19:46

If she can fly, IRL, without wires, she's the winner.

No.

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EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 19:46

“or sit on the front benches, where he will subordinate his view to party policies.”

In the current momentum led times, I would indeed suspect the latter Xing. Although TBF, this is also an accusation that could be fairly levelled at any Tory candidate in the current climate. We are certainly in uncharted territory.

EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit · 24/11/2019 19:48

Haha @DustyDiamond, she can’t save him, there’s no room on the ‘revolving’ door for Chukka.

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