Brexit Arms: the discussion continues....

[XingMing]

I'm not promising to be the resident landlady, and I can't even hope to moderate the discussion or offer up great memes etc because I don't know how, but here's opening the next iteration....

First drink is on the house.

Just catching up on the Sunday news.

🥰🥰🥰 bellinisurge, that other place sounds like its a Momentum cult now. Never had to spoil my vote but seems like a pretty considered thing to do if you feel you cant for any of the candidates. That is democracy.

So Labours manifesto is fully costed but they have pulled another uncosted £58 Billion out of their bums. Its only other peoples money, so who cares.

Very little mention of the costs of all Corbyns nationalisations. Guess he is not planning to pay for any of the companies they want to seize.

What next, could they nationalise google? it would only be another £100 billion.

Also not hearing much of the £400 billion they are planning to borrow to provide free loft insulation for every house in the country.

Its almost like people have just switched off to such big numbers. "oh, its only another 100, 200, 300 billion, whats money between friends".

Off to read the Boris proposal now.

He's definitely not out of the Momemtum cookie cutter school. But having recently read Isabel Hardman's book, I am definitely dubious about anyone who actively seeks power.

I've just been reading & nodding along to the thread (from my self-imposed quarantine 😩)

Def agree with "more human and less twitter"

Was chatting to my best friend of forever earlier (we live at opposite ends of the country now)

We were talking amongst other things about how we are polar opposites on all things political - she's pro indy (I'm pro union), she's a hippy green lover (I'm not!), she voted Remain (I was Leave), she'd never vote Tory but likes the SNP (I'd never vote SNP but like the Tories)

We are so very different politically but we are so very similar in our hopes, dreams, aspirations, values etc for ourselves & our families

I am definitely dubious about anyone who actively seeks power.

I'm always struck by how much Michael Heseltine goes on about power.

I noticed it a while back when he started making noise after the ref didn't go his way - now I can't stop noticing it!

Even on a doc recently with Michael Portillo about the Tories he was banging on about power & it's importance

I get it obvs! You need to be in power to effect change, but being so utterly obsessed by the mere notion of power is something else...

Amen Dusty.

That’s one of the things that makes me cringe at Head girl Jo. You can almost see the thirst for power growing in her eyes. It’s not a good look. Seeking power at any cost is not good and is frankly bloody scary. Power is granted by the people, for the people. It should never be sought at the expense of the people.

Sh*t Epic, I just read back through. I am desolated for you and your family and business. Here, likewise, micro-business.

For all those wanting to punish capitalist business owners, it's another eight families on the dole. Don't kid yourselves that there's a shitload of moolah in the bank.

Apologies for derailing the thread.

Thanks Xing, 😊 I didn’t bring it up that much earlier, as it’s quite personal obviously, but I felt it so important to underpin our dialogue, ie; the dangers of just dismissing capitalism, as just some bourgeois playtime for rich folk. Anyone who is employed in the private sector, or sets up a business, even a self employed plumber, benefits from capitalism. Even in the public sector, the tax take from Capitalist enterprise, helps keep the home fires burning. There is more that can be done, it’s not perfect, as with all things, we have to ensure that certain companies and businesses like Amazon for example, don’t freeload at the expense of the public, companies like that should be paying more tax (any at all would be a good start!), however it’s important to get the balance right. They are a huge employer and that is relevant too, if you go from no tax, to suddenly expecting them to underpin your entire economic policy, then away they go, elsewhere, anywhere, taking all those jobs with them.

Capitalism may not always be a positive sum game. But it’s certainly not a zero sum game by any definition.

Sorry, my last post was a tad rambly! I think my point is in there somewhere! 😂

Epic, totally get where you stand. Our micro-business is equally vulnerable to bad debts or a whim of purchasing preference. We have seen solid businesses collapsed by debtors defaulting and have experienced apparently solid businesses defaulting on us, paying only 15p of each £ we've been owed. My heart goes out to you.

It’s a domino effect Isn’t it Xing, people think, oh, that’s just one SME or business, who really cares but the ripple effects are huge, especially when it comes to cashflow. We had a major manufacturer, a very very iconic one, nearly take us down around 2007/8, they just couldn’t pay us. It was a large bill, with a large material and physical outlay for us, luckily we weathered that, as we had plenty of other customers to get us through, sadly it was not to be this time.

It’s not just our employees who stand to lose out either, it’s our sub contractors and our suppliers. Again, ripple effect. If we can’t pay, their cashflow is impacted and on and on it goes.

Capitalism is NEVER just playtime for rich folk. Unless your self employed plumber, chimney sweep, kitchen-fitter et al are disposable (and mine aren't). I might make big companies wait for payment but my local contractors are paid within hours of presenting their bill. Because I need them to stay in business.

Just you and me here Epic... have a large one, whatever you fancy, because I wish I could solve something/anything for you. Is anything rescue-able?

We’ve bored them out the door Xing! 😂😂😂

Sorry folks! Lol,

At this stage, from a personal perspective not rescuable. Possibly from the perspective of our employees though. Fingers crossed. They have always been and will always remain our priority, we will do what we can for them.

Capitalism is NEVER just playtime for rich folk. Unless your self employed plumber, chimney sweep, kitchen-fitter et al are disposable (and mine aren't).

Mine aren't either. Had the same plumbing family firm for 15 years. Watched the apprentices grow up and always pay them pronto, recommend them to all my friends and don't flirt with fly by nights.

For the same reasons I don't use UBER but remain loyal to my local taxi firm and much prefer independent hotels to AirBnB. I also don't Just Eat because I can walk to half a dozen takeaways of various types I know personally and can vouch for.

That said most people round my way are the same so UBER is kinda thin on the ground. Had friends visiting from that London all fancy with their Apps - they eventually came back in the house when their UBER failed to show after 30 mins and we sped dialled the locals who arrived in 2 minutes.

For Jezzbollah, and all who ride with him, the big companies you love to hate and deride as exploiters... for every one you take down, there are thousands of smaller companies who suffer, and if each one has eight employees, that translates into real pain and need. It's hard to credit that Socialists can't see it.

Evening all, Double G & T for me please. I'm so sorry to hear about your family business Epic. These self serving idiots that were more interested in delay tactics have absolutely no idea how their actions have affected so many businesses.
My DH and I recently closed our business after 20 years. Not necessarily due to Brexit but trade had been doing down and down - high end food products. DH had been hoping to retire and at 68 decided he had had enough!
I'm one of the women affected by the change in retirement age. Yes it would be great to get some payback but not at the expense of other more deserving causes.
I would however like to add that little is made of Gordon Brown's change in private pension taxation and just how much was lost from our pension pots. I think I lost about a third without enough time to recoup. Then we have labour's policies to nationalise several companies, take 10% of the value of others and destroy the current internet providers. They have had little or no thought of who this might affect for instance the share holders, who are in the main the pension/investment companies!

In the spirit of returning light heartedness to this pub...

It’s been a while since this one did the rounds. Here’s one for you @bellinisurge. Fear not, you do not need to write NONE on your ballot. You can just write RICK FUCKING ASTLEY instead. 🤘😂

Don't start me on Gordon Brown's dividend raid on pension funds. It was the biggest raid on personal pension planning ever launched, and so few people noticed. Epic theft, that transformed decent funds for the hard working people who relied on them for a respectable retirement into a tattered facsimile. I still get shivers.

Thanks Double, it’s been a crazy time, sorry to hear that things weren’t great for you guys either, plus the WASPI thing. Not good at all, it’s a horrible situation for a lot of women and certainly doesn’t reflect well on the conservatives at all. I had hoped they would put it right, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. Agree with you though, Im very at labour dangling that particular carrot so deliciously, as it just seems to be another VOTE for meeeee, policy, that when collated together with all the other mad cap schemes, strikes as disingenuous and frankly ill thought through. When they give with one hand, they will just need three hands to take back with instead. It’s so hard to see it as anything more than a reactive political ruse, that will either get brushed under the carpet post election or lead to people being hammered in other far more destructive ways.

And that was in 1997, a few weeks after the Blair landslide. The first budget IIRC. Socialism? No, thank you very much. Prefer to rely on my own common sense.

Ahhh, good old Gordon Brown and his ‘Stealth Taxes’ I suppose one thing that we CAN say about the current Labour lot, is at least they are telling us to our faces this time, just how much they plan to screw us, whilst simultaneously expecting us to be grateful.

As a WASPI, if they win, I could get a windfall, but I think the idea of equalising retirement age for men and women was right, just not well thought through.

Time for bed. DH is on a promise, ladies. So fare thee well, until the morrow.

I agree Xing, in principle equalising the retirement age, is reasonable, although there is an argument for lost years due to childcare with women’s contributions . Either way, It should have been carefully staggered, ripping the plaster off when no one expected it was just shit. So in terms of Tory policies that go in my shit bucket, that’s definitely one! (I have a shit ‘skip’ for poorly considered labour policies however.)