Potential Scottish independence - how do people think it would happen in practice?

[Miaowing]

I've asked on other threads how people who support Scottish independence actually see it going.

If Brexit has taught us anything, its how difficult it is to unpick 40 years of integration. We are talking hundreds of years in the case of independence.

Are people assuming that the rest of the Uk will just roll over and make it easy for them the same way the more naïve Brexiteers thought that Europe would?

Think of all the things taken for granted.

Sometimes I think independence supporters think Scotland can just pick up its ball and not play anymore and expect ROUK to say go on, and here you go, we’ll help you out.

There is obviously trade and customs but to be honest they are the easy parts.

Wally if you were a footballer would you be able to play for any of the 4 national teams?

Mockers, you said "What constitutes the land and territorial waters of Scotland would be largely a matter for the UK to determine. If the UK wishes to keep uninhaboted territory such as Rockall or the far north tip of Shetland, it would have an absolute right to do so"

What on earth am I reading here? I'm told by Unionists everywhere that Scotland is part of the UK because that is the free democratic will of the people of Scotland. That Scotland is not a colony. It's a constituent nation forming part of the UK, it's an equal partner (snort). However it's rather telling that those same unionists are desperate, really really desperate not to have a new referendum to confirm that the Scottish people really are willing to be part of this oh so precious union. Because there's been some really fecking fundamental changes since the referendum in 2014. Including one which was specifically mentioned in the SNP's manifesto after the referendum - 'if Scotland is forced to Brexit against the will of the Scottish people then we will have another referendum'.

Seriously what the hell? If and when Scotland chooses independence, there will be no UK. The UK will have broken up. Scotland is an integral part of the UK, remember? So your "UK" won't actually have any right to keep any Scottish territory (ffs).

The Wee Ginger Dug blog wrote last week "Those who call themselves Scottish Unionists always prided themselves on the fact that Scotland is not a colony, not a possession, but rather a kingdom which has freely chosen to unite with the crown of England to form the United Kingdom. But if Scotland is not free to end that union should it be the will of the people of Scotland, we're not in a union at all. Scotland is a possession. Scotland's position becomes indistinguishable from a crown colony."

I just watched an SNP guy on the Andrew Neil show stating upon 'independence' they would keep the British pound, but they wouldn't follow any rules of the BofE.

Now Scotland prints 'Scottish' bank notes, they cant print Bank of England notes. After 'independence' why would any business in England accept a Scottish bank note? It would be a foreign currency. Anyone from Scotland would have to get their money exchanged (what would be the exchange rate be & who would set it) before coming across the border.

Is that what Scottish people really want? Why dont they just adopt the Euro? How would this work in reality?

Would their be a schism between the real Scot Nats and the euro Scot Nats?

I'm not sure I follow? Scotland already print Scottish bank notes through the Scottish banks. Frequently they are refused in England anyway.

You know NI and Rep of Ire have had different currencies since around 1922, I think and they manage.

You know, according to the Tories, the whisky industry supports 10,000 jobs in Scotland but 42,000 across the UK. Maybe those 42,000 people might accept Scottish cash. 😂

Scotland already print Scottish bank notes through the Scottish banks

And currently they follow the BofE rules so are the same as English bank notes. After independence they will officially become a foreign currency. What will be the consequence of that?

England is Scotland's biggest customer by miles (60% of total trade).

Great chunks of which then get sold on abroad and somehow magically become 'English' exports.

I'm for cutting out the middle-man.

Tricky. I call myself Scottish, I was born there, lived there till the age of 35, my parents and all the rest of my family still live there. I left 15 years ago (NZ then France). I still feel Scottish. I went to school and uni there. My husband is Scottish. Both my kids say they are Scottish, even though neither were born there. I go out boozing with other Scots and we, collectively, are very Scottish. If anyone asks me, I’m Scottish.

But I don’t have a single piece of paper to prove it. On paper / legally speaking, I’m British, whether I like it or not. And if I am Scottish despite having lived away for some years, why wasn’t I allowed to vote in the referendum? Sorry, wee personal moan there.

@WallyWallyWally, Anyone asks me and I say I'm Scottish. I live here but I wasn't born here. My kids were. I'm Scottish, but not a Scot.

@TheSandman
Where were you born?

So my equivalent would be calling/ thinking of myself as French? Because I live and one of my children was born here. No way. My French isn’t great, We speak English all the time at home, I don’t feel the love for Johnny Halliday, and I have zero French family. I probably will apply for French nationality in due course - thanks Brexit - and I will have my name published in an official journal, I’ll receive a French birth certificate and I’ll be given the opportunity to change my name to a Frenchified version ;-) this is tempting, as my current name is very difficult for French people to pronounce :-)

Did any of this happen when you “became Scottish”? It couldn’t, because there is no such thing as Scottish nationality.

The legal status and the “feeling” of being a certain nationality are different things. I feel Scottish, but legally I’m British and will also be French. I won’t feel French, despite having the bits of paper to show it.

Anyhoo, as I said at the start, the lawyers are going to get very, very rich arguing this all out in court.

You know that countries have become independent from the UK before now? Loads of them, in fact. There are precedents and protocols. Brexit is different from Scottish independence, Brexit has never been attempted by any country.

Also, Scottish money is already different from English money. There is already an exchange rate. And the currency will be just fine, thanks. If Scottish oil is good enough to prop up a post-Brexit UK, it's absolutely good enough to prop up a Scottish currency. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/11/08/north-sea-oil-can-still-bargaining-chip-need/amp/?twitterr_impression=true

Scotland has plenty of resources. More than a lot of small to medium sized countries. Looking at this thread you'd think we had nothing. There's a lot of ignorance about Scotland.

I believe that the reason Westminster is desperate to keep Scottish people in ignorance of their country's actual and potential wealth is because they can't see how the rest of the UK will manage when Scotland is independent - particularly after Brexit. Scotland has oil, energy, aggregates, forestry, fishing grounds, whisky, gin, world class food and drink in fact. Tourism, higher education, scientific research, oh loads of things that make money - and currently we have to send all of our money to the country next door and get back a fraction of it as our entire budget, along with a bill for debt and interest on spending that's been done by Westminster 'on our behalf' - often on things that have nothing to do with Scotland and have no real benefit for Scotland, like HS2, extensions to airport runways in England, don't get me started on trident, and the rest. Bring on full fiscal autonomy. Why do you think Scotland hasn't been allowed that?

www.scotland.org/business/key-sectors

Yes, currently we trade more with rUK than with the EU. But with Brexit and Scottish independence this would obviously change. As with Ireland, our trade with the EU will grow. And it's a very large market, and currently Scotland are the only net exporter in the UK anyway.

What will Westminster use for bargaining tools once Scotland is in charge of her own resources? They're laden with trillions of debt. No wonder they're panicking. Apart from anything, Scotland exports both water and electricity to England. We have both in abundance. Unionists try to make our an independent Scotland would be sitting in the dark, trying to barter with buttons, and I really don't know why anyone who looks into the situation can think that. That's even without looking at the situation with Trident.

The only thing keeping this extremely unequal and undemocratic Union together at the moment is the fact that the Scottish people are kept ignorant of the true picture of Scotland's wealth and potential. We've been conditioned for years to believe we couldn't survive alone. But seriously, why not? What makes us uniquely incapable of not only surviving as an independent country, but thriving? We have excellent natural resources, we have an educated, open, outward-looking people (who voted by a large margin to remain in the EU), we have a small population - it's the recipe for success. Look around, the countries not doing as well don't have our resources. Why are Westminster so desperate to keep together their "precious" Union? If Scotland were the drain that they're telling all and sundry, why would they fight so hard to keep us? And to keep us from finding out the true economic picture, why all the estimations and fudging? It's not too hard to guess, especially when you look at that telegraph article.

There is such a thing as Scottish nationality (small n). Rod Stewart thinks he's Scottish, so he is. What there is not is any form of Scottish citizenship.

Regards Spain, the new govt is a Socialist/Podemos coalition, so they would be unlikely to object to Scotland joining the EU. The same cannot be said for the Popular Party, who will be back, eventually. As a potential net contributor, Scotland would be generally welcomed. Whether Scotland would welcome paying those contributions is another question.

Greece and Cyprus would be two who might object with an eye on North Cyprus and North Macedonia.

Currently, Scottish (and N.Irish, IoM and Channel Islands) bank notes are not currency, just promisary notes issued by private banks who have sufficient funds deposited in the Bank of England to back them up, not one for one but enough for banking confidence.

So basically, having rtft, I agree with Amortentia

Pretty sure Scotland would welcome paying EU contribution, people don't tend to be reminded what we get back.

digitalpublications.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefings/Report/2018/9/28/European-Union-funding-in-Scotland

Excellent posts from Nyx. Sanity and sense to this odd thread.

@TheSandman
Where were you born?

So my equivalent would be calling/ thinking of myself as French? Because I live and one of my children was born here. No way. My French isn’t great, We speak English all the time at home, I don’t feel the love for Johnny Halliday, and I have zero French family. I probably will apply for French nationality in due course - thanks Brexit - and I will have my name published in an official journal, I’ll receive a French birth certificate and I’ll be given the opportunity to change my name to a Frenchified version ;-) this is tempting, as my current name is very difficult for French people to pronounce :-)

Ma français est très mauvaise aussi, mais repondre a ta question:

I was born in England. Grew up in Wales. I have no particular love for either place. Scotland is my home. I have a love and affinity for this country like no other on the planet. Legal status can be changed. At the moment I'm an EU citizen. If the fuckwits in Westminster get their way that will change whether I like it or not. (I will always remain a European at heart.) Legally I may be 'British' but that will change too.

The UK as it presently constituted is is less than 100 years old.

Things change.

So basically, having rtft, I agree with Amortentia

Lol, was just going to reply to your post by saying I agree with you. All I will add to what you said is this-

Energy supply and security is increasingly becoming a problem for England. Fortunately, they have a neighbour who currently produces quite a lot and is set to increase. I'm sure England will continue to be good neighbours in exchange for the many essential utilities such as gas, electricity and water we can supply.

You know that countries have become independent from the UK before now? Loads of them, in fact. There are precedents and protocols.

The only relevant precedent is the Irish Free State in 1921.

You cannot have Scotland as a colony of empire. Scots were always in the vanguard of imperialism. Many made a tidy sum off the backs of the natives, or in the case of the Carribbean, the imported natives.

Mockers. That's whataboutery. The point stands that at least one has left (Ireland) and that has worked just fine for them.

What can Scotland be called now but a colony?!

Scotland is not a colony. It is not long since the UK had a Scottish prime minister, chancellor and foreign secretary all at once.

The Republic of Ireland is doing just fine. There was a small civil war and some troubles over the years, but Ireland has a place in the international community and is recognised around the world for its distinct identity. No reason Scotland could not do the same.

But remember that Ireland never had a proper currency of its own. The Punt was a shadow currency to Sterling, and then there was the Euro.

Scotland is not a colony. It is not long since the UK had a Scottish prime minister, chancellor and foreign secretary all at once

It would be would be quite tricky now for a Scottish MP to be PM because of EVEL.

It is not long since the UK had a Scottish prime minister, chancellor and foreign secretary all at once.

And what a fiasco it was!