Westminstenders: Christmas Cold, Campaigning, Canvassing and Cancelled Carols

[RedToothBrush]

It looks like a December General Election is on.

The EU have officially extended A50 until 31st January. We have to name an EU Commissioner though.

All that seems left to do is decide between the 9th and 12th December.

The difference between the two is about whether there is any possibility that the WAB can be passed before Parliament dissolves.

A pre-brexit GE is thought to favour the LDs at the expense of Labour and the Conservatives. What the Brexit Party decide to do and where they decide to stand will also be crucial.

I also think the blurring of class stratification has had an impact. The traditional unionised working class doesn’t exist in the same way anymore. The middle class is hard to define. If a successful plumber sends his DC to private school, what class are they? People often identify with individual issues rather than political ideologies.

I agree Chaz, it's also totally counter productive to be nasty and aggressive to people who you need to win over to 'your side'. I think it's part of the reason the Remain campaign have failed to win over Leave voters in significant numbers.

Yes! Which is why that Tactical Vote page is too simplistic. It says for my constituency that Labour came second last time so vote for them. Totally disregarding that we've never been a Labour seat.

Same for my constituency. Though we were very narrowly Labour in 1997 and some point in the 1970s. A decent Brexit Party candidate round here will also pull votes away from Labour more than Conservative too, as has been shown pre 2017 with UKIP.

And there's Labour Leave and Remain candidates, and Tory Soft Leavers, No Dealers and Remainer Holdouts.

There's a lovely, warm-hearted, elderly lady living near the bottom of my lane who is voting for Brexit because "we have more people, more space, and more money than China so why can't we make our own things".

It's endlessly surprising what errors of fact lie behind people's reasoning.

Workington Man really is code for Neanderthal, isn't it?!
Easily identified by the scrapped knuckles from dragging

I'd hope those were posted without thinking - the quick jest that on reflection should not have been thought let alone posted.

Amber Rudd is not standing for election.

I wonder if the Tories will struggle to get candidates??

Agree that LDs amd labour campaign very well.

I do pity the tactical voting websites.

They'd never have predicted the scale of the swings that occurred in Scotland in 2015 - up to 39% ( overall swing was 30% to the SNP, and -18% from Labour, -11% from LibDems and -2% from Conservative) so such swings are possible.

Yes, there was a particular circumstance (but you could argue that Brexit/the EU Referendum was/is a particular circumstance) and yes, there was a credible alternative (ummmmm ) and yes, it rebalanced the following election (although the SNP were still left with the majority of the seats - and look like they might be on course for a repeat of 2015 )

So there is everything to play for.

There's a lovely, warm-hearted, elderly lady living near the bottom of my lane who is voting for Brexit because "we have more people, more space, and more money than China so why can't we make our own things"

More space than China ? More people than China ?

Sorry, but some people are thick. Not intelligent, but ill informed. Just plain thick.

Yep.
The stuff you hear is just....mind boggling.

Anyway, ds1 is getting my vote.
I'd imagine he will vote labour.

I know a wonderful man who rescues a particular breed of dog, fosters, rehomes etc, for a registered charity. He is ex-army, well-travelled. He's a lovely chap - but also the most rabid Brexiteer ever. I find it hard to reconcile the two.

It is hard to reconcile the two. My lovely lady was perfectly happy to accept she was probably wrong about the UK being larger than China, but struggled to go that bit further and see why her opinions might need reviewing in light of this new information.

I don’t it’s fair to refer to idiot voters. I have seen other threads on the GE where Tory voters are being called thick and heartless etc.

If we want a better standard of politics in this country then we all have to engage in a positive way with the people we don’t agree with.

I totally agree - the comments a few pages back on the Workington Man were really out of order in my opinion.

"was a section of the "working class" (I know that's an over-generalisation) that took a pride in being well read"

That was my dad and his friends, born around the end of WW1
They had a great breadth of knowledge about current affairs, foreign affairs, history, geography, literature
and houses full of books

That certainly wasn't due to better education or a better welfare state:

NE wc who were genuinely barefoot, ragged and not-quite-hungry kids growing up during the Great depression
who left school on their 14th birthday to get a job - not pocket money, but to help feed & clothe their siblings & themselves

It might have been partly due to foreign travel,
but that was fighting in different countries through WW2, not holidays

I know a wonderful man who rescues a particular breed of dog, fosters, rehomes etc, for a registered charity. He is ex-army, well-travelled. He's a lovely chap - but also the most rabid Brexiteer ever. I find it hard to reconcile the two.

I have zero problem with any Leaver that is happy to admit it's just how they feel. We're all entitled to our views, after all. But they are really a minority that's always been there.

It's the nouveau-leavers that read a leaflet once and have decided on an alternate reality ever since that grind my gears. The ones who like to parrot soundbites but can never actually find the facts to go with the assertion. The leavers who "discovered" after 43 years that the EU make all our laws, and stop us deporting cats.

If we get ploppers, try not to engage

They are there to disrupt & distract & demoralise, as much as to convert

We must correct any lies by statements of fact
The rest is just froth, so ignore

It is hard to reconcile the two. My lovely lady was perfectly happy to accept she was probably wrong about the UK being larger than China, but struggled to go that bit further and see why her opinions might need reviewing in light of this new information.

So, still a bit dim then ?

I think it's absolutely ok to call out lies, misinformation and right wing propaganda.

And I will do it every time I see it.

I agree that insults don't help but if tory austerity and brexit have cost you your job, your health, your home, your future then I understand why you would be very angry and swear.

I totally understand why people call Brexit voters idiots. Now we know what Brexit will do to the UK and what it will cost those that still support it are just that imo

You are welcome to your own opinion, of course.

It does tickle me that remainers are expected to take the high ground at all times and under any provocation.

We have been called vermin, elite snowflakes, traitors, enemies of the people....

But thats ok, right?

.

There's a lovely, warm-hearted, elderly lady living near the bottom of my lane who is voting for Brexit because "we have more people, more space, and more money than China so why can't we make our own things Lovely story

Workington Man discovered by archaeologists buried in a ditch surrounded by shards of broken promises. Oops no, that's Boris Johnson

Poster00 Tory billboards comparing the Tory vs Labour routes to Brexit, as posted on here some threads back, could damage Labour with those voters who just want simplicity
and reject anything else as "too clever by half" (a classic British insult)

I've read that the Labour slogan might be "for the many, not the few ?"
Could work, but need to be careful that the Tories don't counter that by bringing up the "Few" from the battle of Britain

Nearly all those Labour policies look very worthy, or at least things I've no great objection to
Except .....

I fully support "Transgender rights" when it comes to enabling trans people to live, dress & work as they wish^, just like the rest of us
BUT
I believe that freedom to do so must not be allowed to infringe the rights of women - biological women with XX chromosones - to retain single sex spaces

• the spaces & rights that previous generations have fought for and that women in developing countries are still fighting for.

Labour share such TRA policies as self-ID with the LDems, Greens, SNP and a section of the Tory party
It's a turnoff to much of the traditional Labour vote

Agree