Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Mistigri · 24/10/2019 08:47

I didn't sell drugs, I sold equipment. But I do see your point. It's a massive balancing act, ultimately.

I think with large equipment it's more that there is a cost to the purchasing process, and also a high cost of changing equipment (in the case of changing to a cheaper brand of laboratory analyser for for eg it might require an impact study and then rolling out a change of laboratory reference ranges across a big organisation). Being nimble in this respect is easier for small organisations like independent labs.

Obv don't know what you sold and the above example may not be relevant, but speaking with my economist hat on, the purchase price is not the whole cost of purchase.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2019 08:47

My question would be, how has this additional NHS money been spent?

The cynic in me is going to suggest on additional layers of administration to decide how the additional money gets spent.

NoWordForFluffy · 24/10/2019 08:49

The cynic in me is going to suggest on additional layers of administration to decide how the additional money gets spent.

Inefficiency / waste you mean?

DGRossetti · 24/10/2019 08:50

Just caught a snippet on the news, but there was a story about No 10 sources denying there is a cabinet rift opening up between Boris wanting his election, and ministers wanting to push on with his bill ...

Sometimes, the best way to expose liars is to give them what they say they want ...

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 08:51

The cynic in me is going to suggest on additional layers of administration to decide how the additional money gets spent.

I highly doubt that. The NHS has always been a lean organisation - my DH was an NHS hospital manager for many years back when it was supposedly very bureaucratic and inefficient and it was far leaner than any private sector company I've ever worked for.

Of course all large organisations have inefficiencies, but it strikes me that a lot of the NHS's inefficiencies derive directly from inadequate funding. For eg, gatekeepers have to be paid for; a high rate of missed appointments is usually a sign that people are waiting too long and have forgotten, died, gone elsewhere or got better. And there are costs to delaying treatment: people get worse, require more expensive drugs and longer hospital stays. Etc.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 24/10/2019 08:52

I'm all for repealing the Lansley Act, so long as there's something decent to replace it with. Added decent as something else could end as full privatisation and obviously no fucking way there. Otherwise we end up in the same situation as with brexit. We want out but no agreement on how.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2019 08:53

Inefficiency / waste you mean?

No. I mean the setting up of another layer of troughs for the Tory posh boys association to form "service providers" to get well stuck into.

Happily apologise if I'm wrong. But just as I don't need to look down to know a hammer will hit the ground if I drop it, I don't need to research how public funds are progressively shaved into private companies under Tory regimes. They are both laws of nature.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 08:57

😂😂
Hansard recorded this lovely moment of crisis in the HoL, during the debate on
"Freedom of Establishment and Free Movement of Services (EU Exit) Regulations"

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 08:57

The WAN also rules out visas on the grounds of being self-employed.

That sounds pretty major to me: it's going to be another hit to the creative industry (huge sector) and it ties entrants to the UK to employers - so attacks employment rights by the back-door.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 08:57

WAB not WAN.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 24/10/2019 08:57

a high rate of missed appointments is usually a sign that people are waiting too long and have forgotten, died, gone elsewhere or got better.
In my GP surgery it's often down to them giving out incorrect appt times. They now send a reminder text which has helped because you often get an advanced warning that your appt time is different from that you were given when you booked. I've found the day has been wrong before which took some shuffling around but normally it's just the time that's wrong by 10-20 mins. I have an appt on weds next week, first time for ages it's come through with the same time as the card I was given. But that's a quirk with my gp, I believe other local practices manage to not do this so consistently.

MockersthefeMANist · 24/10/2019 08:59

Judging by this morning's round of interviews, James Cleverly is not blessed with nominative determinism.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 24/10/2019 09:02

That's raised a small smile BigChoc thanks!

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 09:03

I'm getting p*d off with the Corbyn-outriders on Twitter.

The focus is on the utterly meaningless abstention of the LDs on a QS motion

Rather than forensic dismantling of the WAB.

It's positioning for a fact-free GE campaign - rather than telling people how bad this WAB is for workers' rights.

(And EU nationals who are here - but cannot, for reasons of age, isolation, etc, apply for settled status. It is, indeed, a Windrush scandal in the making. I've met some of these EU nationals - isolated, old with pressures from all sides - the worry is real.

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 09:04

In my GP surgery it's often down to them giving out incorrect appt times.

This could also be because cost cutting has gone so far that administrative efficiency has been compromised.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 09:07

The Tory strategy is to divert money claimed for schools and healthcare, from actual services to profits for the private sector

Sleight of hand

DGRossetti · 24/10/2019 09:07

In my GP surgery it's often down to them giving out incorrect appt times. They now send a reminder text which has helped because you often get an advanced warning that your appt time is different from that you were given when you booked.

100% online booking would help. I guess that'll be an aspiration for 2050 ?

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 09:07

And EU nationals who are here - but cannot, for reasons of age, isolation, etc, apply for settled status. It is, indeed, a Windrush scandal in the making. I've met some of these EU nationals - isolated, old with pressures from all sides - the worry is real.

I've been saying this for months. 3 million people - maybe as many as 4 million - no one knows. If you got 95% take up you'd be doing exceptionally well. 90% is more realistic. Add to that the people who got presettled and don't realise that they lose everything if they don't convert it.

The potential number of people made unlawful could easily be something like a quarter of a million.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 09:11

Indeed Angry. It would show "increased" spending on the NHS Hmm - but the actual spending on the services would be reducing as part of it would be siphoned off for profits for private institutions Angry

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 09:11

100% online booking would help.

For a service used most heavily by the old/infirm? Not for many years.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 24/10/2019 09:12

100% online booking would help. I guess that'll be an aspiration for 2050 ?
We currently have some online booking. They only put some appts on there, most are available in person or on the phone. Not to mention DCs schools insistence on having proof of appts beforehand (a print out won't do) which sucks when you have a DC with ongoing problems. The schools issue doesn't help GP surgeries at all. And again, that's not all schools in our area either. Beginning to suspect I've managed to get myself into all the inefficient places Grin

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 09:14

Totally, totally agree, Misti.

It's going to be a large number.

BackInTime · 24/10/2019 09:14

The Tory strategy is to divert money claimed for schools and healthcare, from actual services to profits for the private sector
*
Sleight of hand*

While also claiming to be the heros that are going to save the NHS, education and put 20,000 police on the streets assuming we have forgotten who has run all of these services into the ground in the first place Angry

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 09:15

The Tory strategy is to divert money claimed for schools and healthcare, from actual services to profits for the private sector

Yes, I would suspect that this is the biggest NHS inefficiency.

Private sector involvement does not have to be like this. I had an MRI recently, in France. The way it works here is that your doctor prescribes and you book an appointment at the establishment of your choice. Because the wait for an MRI at our local public hospital is about 6 weeks, I booked at a private clinic in Toulouse. Cost (covered by the health insurance scheme at a fixed rate): €68.

TheMShip · 24/10/2019 09:17

I don't envy the English their version of the NHS or education. The structures seem designed to siphon money away from the actual services as DGR points out. Yet the services themselves run absolutely cut to the bone now and were never all that inefficient in the first place like Misti's husband experienced.

The Scottish systems have their problems (don't get me started on the SNP and education and PFI hospitals) but at least most of the administrative structures aren't systemically designed for profit opportunities.