Westminstenders: Another day of fear and toil

[RedToothBrush]

In a move that surprised no one paying attention, Bercow refused to let Johnson put the WA back to the house today after it had already been presented to the house on Saturday.

This move upset the government but was entirely predictable.

This means that the only way the deal can move forward is through the WA's implementation bill (the WAB). It was published for the first time tonight (all 100 pages of it) and it will be presented to the house tomorrow.

In a lightning fast timetable parliament will be asked to scruntise it. This of course is reckless in the extreme for such an important piece of legislation. The speed at which it is being forced through is the thing that looks most likely to ruffle feathers.

The government is still trying to pretend it can make the 31st October deadline and leave by then. The reality is there isn't enough time for parliament to pass the necessary legislation and the EU will need to also ratify the deal, which in a best case scenario won't happen until next week with an extraordinary EU meeting to do so. This is much more likely to occur the week after at the earliest.

The reality is the EU need an extension themselves which is why we are very likely to get at least a short technical one and remain in the EU beyond next Thursday. It's in the UK and EU's interest if we do want to get a deal done.

Everything that Johnson does though is about optics ahead of a GE. It has to play it all as if he has been prevented from leaving as he promised.

We wait to see the pieces of a deal fall into place. It is in progress now finally it seems. For better or worse.

Peregrina
Taxes stay where they were unless changed
That goes back to Napoleonic times
So if no budget changes, the old rates stand
its a good till cancelled basis

I agree with ListeningQuietly - a VONC - or even possibly voting down the QS, causing the government to resign (although the FTPA has arguably stopped that particular route) - is too much of a risk until the EU has confirmed the extension request (or, if they suggest a different length, Parliament has accepted it).

Then and only then can a GE be considered.

The sad truth is that we don't have a PM who can be trusted.

What an indictment for a supposedly mature democracy, which claims to be the "Mother of all Parliaments" (typical of the British - ignores Iceland's Thingvellir ). I don't think the UK can class itself as "mature" any more: demented more like and/or reverting to a second toddler childhood

Doesn’t Boris have to get a deal through before January 1st as otherwise the erg will have to declare, for tax purposes, their millions stashed in offshore accounts?
Then presumably there are also all the hedge funders betting on it.

Do or die?

Scrodinger’s cat says Brexit makes Quantum physics look like Tiddlywinks.

The NI /Irish border exists and doesn’t exist.

The WA has been approved but approval is not forthcoming.

The WAIB has had its second reading but may yet be consumed by a black hole.

BJ did and did not request an extension and is now asking the EU’s advice on the extension he has or hasn’t requested, after a successful second reading debate that didn’t go the way he wanted.

I reckon the ex-Tory independents will vote with the government on the budget - but the question is, will the DUP?

So we get an extension.

Next question.

Who is going to be our European Commissioner than Johnson refused to appoint then?

Mark Prisk is standing down which is a shock as he increased his vote
He's my lovely MP

EU Tax law is a start but not the end game
so long as Delaware is a tax haven, its all to play for
has to be said that the the rich will just move abroad
has been rather bollocksed by the situation in Hong Kong and the increasing instability in the Middle East

but so long as
Delaware / Cayman / Lesser Antilles still have US protection
its all to play for

Trying to catch up.
So it's still not going well for Johnson.
He's acting like he's got a majority, but, you know, he hasn't. Like the playground bully, but he's half the size he thinks he is.
When are they going to turn on him do you think.
I feel childishly amused to see farage kicking off. maybe that makes me a bad person.
I'm too exhausted to work out what this vote means, but I can't recall ever having a prime minister who I just desperately wanted to LOSE THINGS because he is such a shit. So i'm glad he's losing everything. Sorry. Tha'ts childish too. Need to read more about everything.

How Brexit Put a United Ireland Back on the Map

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/10/22/brexit-and-irelands-northern-question/

“Brexit is not a backdoor to a united Ireland ....
Brexit has kicked the door down and made people look in and see what’s there, and what’s possible.”

@RedToothBrush , can I be the new EU Commissioner? I'm very cheap.

outsonia*
Yep. The effects will be insidious yet monumental.
For example potential extension state retirement age for those in their 50s.
People don't get it. At all.

Suspect DUP pretending Cuddly BloJo "didn't realise what he was negotiating" because today the UUP challenged them to come out of the confidence and supply arrangement. They have to justify staying in it somehow

I'm actually furious by the Conservative Party advert.

How can it be OK to lie?

Who was the Tory MP they interviewed outside the HoC just after the defeated second bill saying it would be undemocratic to ask the people what they thought??

Donald Tusk:

Following PM @BorisJohnson’s decision to pause the process of ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement, and in order to avoid a no-deal #Brexit, I will recommend the EU27 accept the UK request for an extension. For this I will propose a written procedure.

David Allen Green:

Laughing like a drain

There is nothing Johnson and Cummings can now do, if European Council agree

if

There will be an Article 50 extension to 31 January

By automatic operation of the Benn Act, a statute of the UK's own sovereign parliament

Classic Dom

I wonder if the Council Decision will also be "unsigned"

Well, I used to work for the Inland Revenue, and Income Tax had to be levied annually. There was one year when Parliament didn't agree the changes.... But it's so long since, that the law could easily have changed.

I've been in the tax game for well over 30 years and watching tax policy for over 45
the NEW rates cannot be applied as the OLD ones still stand
in all taxes
until amended

do not get me started on the joy when the new HMRC site missed out the CGT pages

@Peregrina you are correct - it does expire annually. I posted this on the previous page but it probably has been missed by being the last post on the page (my pages go by 100s...).

Income Tax was the first tax in British history to be levied directly on people's earnings. It was introduced in 1799 by the then Prime Minister William Pitt the Younger, as a temporary measure to cover the cost of the Napoleonic Wars.

Today, it remains a temporary tax, which expires on April 5 each year, and has to be renewed as a provision in the annual Finance Bill. The Provisional Collection of Taxes Act 1913 permits the Government to continue to collect Income Tax for up to four months after the expiry of the measure, until the Finance Bill becomes law.

www.politics.co.uk/reference/income-tax

I wish I'd been on mumsnet in the run up to the referendum and been part of the threads back then. Id have loved to have read leavers' thoughts and rationales at the time before the vote and after. I know I could look back but if they were as fast paced as these ones then there'd be a lot to get through. I joined the party very late and therefore have only ever got the "we won, get over it" or "I don't have to explain my reasons for voting leave because you'll just accuse me of being thick/racist/ignorant etc." Or was it always thus? Even my mum's not sure why she voted leave but wishes to hell she hadn't.

All that Parliament has done, is vote, some reluctantly, some with too much enthusiasm, for content of the Bill to be debated

Anyone would think that the Bill had passed and was about to be made law, if it hadn't been for those pesky kids rebels who voted against the timetable

Who is to say what amendments would have been added - and even whether it would've passed the 3rd reading?

I've been in the tax game for well over 30 years and watching tax policy for over 45

Why do I have a mental picture of a shepherd watching over his flock?

It was horrible, Bercow. We were swarming with bots. And they were non-stop - hopping on to Chat threads, popping up on anything, and posting around the clock.

They didn't make sense, they were completely contradictory, but by the time you'd taken apart one post, five others would have taken their place.

And they knew that a lot of people don't read threads, just first and last post - so they just said anything and everything.

It was always thus Bercows, during the referendum i remember trying to get details from leavers to back up their sweeping statements, it was like pulling hens teeth..