Westminstenders: Super Saturday

[RedToothBrush]

Parliament sits on a Saturday for the first time since the Falklands.

A deal has been reached with the EU. Its utterly shite and worse for the UK than May's deal. It even leaves no deal as an option after transition.

The DUP don't like it. They got predictably shafted.

Tomorrow is a debate and vote on the deal. Amendments are key, in particular the Letwin amendment which seeks to close a loophole in the Benn Act and stop the Deal being adopted tomorrow, instead forcing the ultimate decision over the deal to a later date and forcing an extension.

Which the EU may or may not agree to.

There is also talk of forcing another ref via amendments but this, unlike the Letwin amendment is unlikely to pass.

The vote tomorrow looks to be very tight. The Letwin amendment passes looks likely to make Johnson fail to have the numbers. However there is talk that enough Labour MPs have decided to back the deal.

There is also a big anti Brexit march in London tomorrow (which runs the risk of having problems with the Extinction Rebellion ban). Good luck to everyone going tomorrow.

See you on the other side (which might now be on this thread!!)

TheCat I've a ridiculous memory for past detail,

such as still remembering the figures for Tony Benn's deputy leadership attempt
and chunks of Neil Kinnock's speech - which Biden plagiarised in his 1988 POTUS campaign and got into trouble for so doing.
Amazing that Biden is a 2020 contender, btw !

Place marking!

Brexit has taken a bit of a back seat for me today as my octogenarian dad had a bit of health scare yesterday afternoon.

I just wanted to congratulate and applaud everyone who turned out for the march today. And to thank everyone for there opinions and wisdom on this thread!

That was exemplary. It wasn't. It was biased and patronising.

Ouch

katya adlerr@BBCkatyaadler*

Spain's El Pais sums up EU opinion that the PM, not Brussels, made painful concessions in #Brexitt^ renegotiations.

#Says EU “has given nothing away.. and at least no-deal chaos has been avoided for EU citizens who live on that unfortunate island.
Goodbye.”

elpais.com/internacional/2019/10/17/actualidad/1571313751_187259.html

"Biased" ?
All opinion is subjective
I admit I had a low opinion of Trimble back in the 1980s-1990s and haven't seen any reason to change this since

"patronising" ?
Just my recollections of him

Hope all is well tobee

BBC is saying 11 pm deadline.

Under the terms of the so-called Benn Act, passed last month by MPs, he has until 2300 BST on Saturday to send it.

Best wishes for your dad, tobee 💐
Take care of yourself too

Wow. El Pais is harsh.

Thanks for the best wishes! Hopefully it was just that - a scare. But I needed to be on hand today!

Trimble is a twatbadger

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

Extraordinary threat from Nigel Dodds, who says DUP will now “examine all amendments” on the bill to protect NI’s place in the union.
That includes the one on a second referendum.

Would DUP prefer to reverse Brexit altogether than see PM’s deal go thru?
On this^ just asked a DUP MP if they really would back reversing Brexit over PM’s deal.^

He says: “We are unionists first”.

This whole thing has a few more crazy turns to come yet.

My mum laughed like a drain when TM got into bed with the DUP.

I can see why tbh :)

As someone who lived through the Troubles, and whose blood has been shed in the course of the Troubles, I must take issue with ChocFrenzy’s opinion of Trimble. Certainly I don’t recall any suggestion that he was not the equal of Hume, and your opinion doesn’t seem to recognise the massive effort on behalf of Unionists to attempt any kind of reconciliation after years of bloodshed.

Hope your dad is scare-free now tobee. It's tough having aged parents - I'm 1000s of miles away from mine and feel the distance every day.

BCF that's astonishing that the DUP might consider backing a 2nd referendum. I am all for anything that looks like momentum towards a PV, despite my skepticism about its possibility (not even getting into outcome and repercussions).

OK. Can we break out a little GFA spirit here and just acknowledge what an amazing amount of compromise, forgiveness, flexibility and Hope was shown by all the people of Northern Ireland?

I was going to apologise for being sickly and liberal.

But, actually, I'm letting it stand. Because the GFA is a tremendous thing. And we don't spend nearly enough time thinking about how remarkable it was/is.

Would it be that surprising if the DUP were coming round to a PV? I keep hearing that NI overall is in favour of remaining so perhaps now they're cut loose from the Tories they're looking ahead to elections?

I still can't get over how much Brexit fucks with the City, 80% of our economy. Which will migrate in large part to Europe almost certainly.

And yet it is still seen as a (macho) 'victory'.

I know we all hate the financial sector these days but ... bloody hell.

Molto We have different experiences & opinions
Mine comes from the fact that it was Unionists oppressing Catholics for so many years that caused the damn Troubles in the first place
The Unionist politicians are still trying to stay top dog and still behaving very badly, nothing to do with Brexit

Trimble was something of a bogeyman for close family friends who were Irish Catholic,
but I already regarded him with great suspicion due to his past actions and to his continual foot-dragging during the GFA negotiations

hi,
I can barely keep up and this thread is an absolutely miracle - thank you so much to the regular posters here and their knowledge and sense.
having a terrible week at work with some very sad patient deaths and honestly felt sick to the stomach this morning with papers all saying Johnson was going to win everything. I am struggling to follow the ins and outs of what's going on, but ... well... he's not winning everything... is he? Despite the media consistently claiming he will/is. So I take some very small solace in that, despite everything being a clusterfuck

is he asking for an extension/ isn't he? Papers are reporting both simultaneously! This is 21st century news to the max, isn't it. Schroendingers news

gonna cry a bit more now, had such a shit week! Love to all, if you are anything like me or my other half the depression/anxiety at the state of it all is getting very gruelling...

cat Hear hear. Peace is fragile; 20 years is nothing to the wounds that were caused by the civil war in NI. They are not healed, only bandaged enough for the moment, and could be reopened so terrifyingly easily. What keeps those bandages in place and those wounds healing so agonisingly slowly is all those people in NI who maintain the fine balance of keeping the memories of their own losses alive while respecting the losses of those who caused their pain. They deserve all our support.

The GFA is so, so important, for so many reasons.
It's been eye opening to realise both how many UK citizens know nothing about the Troubles and some that do just don't care.

I expect the DUP are coming under a lot of pressure from constituents. The only surprising thing is that they’re only moving now.

I'm no expert on Northern Ireland Troubles, but at the time I think mothers played a part in coming out and saying they were sick of the violence. Anyway, the bringing of peace to a place that had been a warzone for years was a tremendous achievement. Part of it was the willingness of people to draw a line under the past. I'm not sure re-opening the records of those involved would be helpful at this time. No one wins civil wars, a fact Britain would do well to remember.