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Brexit

Brexit Arms pop up pops up again!

999 replies

time4chocolate · 17/10/2019 20:56

Quite coincidentally I too have been in negotiations today regarding the pubs licence and it's good news here as well, a deal has been agreed!!

There were no amendments or legal objections put forward so a shiny new licence has been issued and normal service can be resumed Smile

Same rules apply.

Now let's hope Saturday's proceedings can go ahead without the usual dicking around and that what has been nigh on impossible during the last 3 years, a majority, can be achieved otherwise I feel we are off to hell in a handcart!

First drink is on the house 🍻🍷🍻🍷Cheers

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NoWordForFluffy · 19/10/2019 10:11

It's a PV on the agreed deal.

Limitedsimba123 · 19/10/2019 10:16

@howabout history is irrelevant. What do you think the motives are of this Government for pushing a hard Brexit? You keep mentioning autonomy and accountability; I don’t think any of our Mp’s want themselves to be more accountable, indeed the Government when thinking about pros and cons of Brexit, are likely to have “unable to blame EU for our unpopular policies” firmly in the con column. This is about deregulation and everyone knows it. But it’s ok, we can always vote JRM et al out in 5 years time after they have done their worst. I’m sure it will be devastating for them.

Sunnyuplands · 19/10/2019 10:20

I must say I have had this feeling from many Remainers who post on here.

History is irrelevant Confused

Enlightens me on why there has been failure to understand so many basic premise because the poster has no knowledge of history. Smile

HateIsNotGood · 19/10/2019 10:22

Thanks fluffy. I thought so, but then you would think that they would be marching towards getting HoC to agree a 'deal' - even this 'new deal' so there would be something to have a PV about.

Can anyone explain that to me please?

Limitedsimba123 · 19/10/2019 10:24

How is history relevant to any of my posts asking leavers to explain what they think the current governments motives are for a hard Brexit?

NoWordForFluffy · 19/10/2019 10:26

The new deal really isn't great for anyone. Just because it's better than no deal, doesn't make it a good deal. And we could still no deal at the end of transition.

I think it actually just illustrates how complex Brexit is and how there isn't an easy (or even one) answer to it.

If you asked all 17.4m people what Brexit they voted for, I reckon you'd get around 3-4m different variations. And that's the problem. Their version isn't everyone's version = conflict even between leavers.

howabout · 19/10/2019 10:29

Define "Hard" and "Soft" Brexit Limited would be the first step in getting anywhere with that.

Imo Boris Deal is far softer than May Deal.

NoWordForFluffy · 19/10/2019 10:31

But it's not softer at all. All the commentators are saying that (see Faisal Islam's Twitter comparison). So I'm afraid your analysis isn't right. This isn't something where an opinion can be correct when it's blatantly wrong. The things he's moved from the WA to the PD give it the potential to be no deal in all but name.

HateIsNotGood · 19/10/2019 10:33

Limited just as people who voted Remain aren't one homogeneous group, neither are Leave voters. But as one person I don't think there is any 'evil machinations' behind the 'hard Brexit' stance. No ERGists wanting to subjugate the people into working in their 'satanic mills' so they can eat peeled grapes on their mega-yachts.

Simply, a 'hard Brexit' is just more resembling of Brexit than a 'soft' one that resembles more 'staying in the EU'.

NoWordForFluffy · 19/10/2019 10:37

But given the 48/52 result, a soft Brexit is actually fairer. It's compromise on both sides. Leavers get to leave, but remainers don't get a hard Brexit. It's the fairest kind of Brexit and one that I'd support.

And remain = remain, no qualification needed. Not like Brexit.

dirtyrottenscoundrel · 19/10/2019 10:39

On a different subject - does anyone know what the Marches are marching for today

God knows. I don’t even think they know.
They’re just ‘marching’

Limitedsimba123 · 19/10/2019 10:40

I would say Johnson’s WA changes would constitute a hard Brexit due to the Level Playing Field commitments, with May’s deal the government would have been legally bound to adhere to specific standards with regards to tax, enviro, labour, state aid and competition. If WA is approved, we are swapping this for a meaningless political declaration that current standards wrt to environment and workers rights will be upheld. Also, it still leaves us open to no-deal.

HateIsNotGood · 19/10/2019 10:42

I think the 'new deal' is very reflective of my idea of Brexit and if there was a PV I would vote for it.

howabout · 19/10/2019 10:45

Fluffy define "soft"? Permanent subjugation of sovereignty in an International Treaty is not "soft". EFTA for now would have been "soft". Settle the bills and provide a framework for negotiating the future amicably is "soft".

DustyDiamond · 19/10/2019 10:46

Maybe the Tories shouldn't have introduced the FTPA if they didn't want to lose control over when a GE can happen.

Letwin's got consistent form if nothing else

Sunnyuplands · 19/10/2019 10:46

Hammond says its a heavily disguised no deal and Farage calls it tm deal warmed up.

Vote for the bloody thing, and hash out details later!!

howabout · 19/10/2019 10:47

Limited May's WA provided maximum incentive for the EU to never agree a Deal ie No Deal on their terms.

Limitedsimba123 · 19/10/2019 10:48

Hatels so you don’t believe the widely reported claims re Brexiteers shorting the pound?

howabout · 19/10/2019 10:49

There you go with the history again Dusty Brew Grin

(Praying for Sally while listening to grandiose minecraft haunted house designing).

NoWordForFluffy · 19/10/2019 10:49

No. Because some of the things moved to the PD need to be in the WA so they're legally binding.

TM's WA could be a soft Brexit.

You need to consider NI and the GFA in what's possible to achieve. If what you want isn't compatible, then it can't happen. And that's just the nuts and bolts of it.

Don't forget that JRM's own amendment to the taxation law means that NI can't legally be treated different to the U.K.

DustyDiamond · 19/10/2019 10:52

I don’t think any of our Mp’s want themselves to be more accountable

Possibly the only thing you have said thus far that I agree with, although it's not all of our MPs that don't want themselves to be more accountable - just the Brexit blocking cohort.

Brexit's raison d'être is to make our MPs in Parliament more accountable, so any MPs who support the WA will be actively welcoming increased accountability.

HateIsNotGood · 19/10/2019 10:55

Limited - since currency trading began there has always been people taking advantage of (and losing on) such things. For all those taking advantage right now, there's more than just Brexiters doing that. So, I'm not bothered by it because it would still go on, Brexit or no Brexit.

dirtyrottenscoundrel · 19/10/2019 10:55

For you HateIsNotGood - courtesy of the daily mash Smile

How to avoid being guilt-tripped into attending a protest

EVERYONE you know is furiously tweeting about attending a protest, but you want to watch telly. Here’s how not to get blown off-course by snivelling do-gooders

Claim mental health

*Say that currently your mental health means you can’t attend crowded, angry, events that aren’t on your sofa but instead you will be ‘hometesting’. Put pictures of yourself making a witty anti-Brexit banner on the internet, sit back, and catch up on Succession. Much better

Launch your own protest

People’s Vote? Extinction Rebellion? So middle-class and so over. Tell friends that you’re launching your own protest movement about something sufficiently obscure – Amazon’s unfair monopoly of European software patents should do it – encourage them all to attend, and watch them all fall silent.

Go greener

Out protesting? Contributing to the city’s carbon footprint? No, you’re staying home to have solar panels installed. Not mentioning that your definition of solar panels is a big conservatory. It’s still harnessing the sun, apart from the underfloor heating.

Boosting diversity

You’re white, cis, middle-class, liberal, and theoretically elite. By staying away from protests you’re actually making them more diverse and allowing marginalised voices a platform to make themselves heard. Anyone like you who attends, for example everyone you know, should be ashamed of themselves.

Block them all

Simply block everyone on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram who even mentions going to a protest. Then be horrified at all the right-wing monsters who are all that’s left and spend the day battling their offensive views from the comfort of home. Doing just as much good.

howabout · 19/10/2019 10:56

The Boris Deal does not fall foul of the JRM tax law as I understand it. Besides which when did it become the case that JRM got to override Parliament by passing unalterable legislation?

DustyDiamond · 19/10/2019 10:58

Praying for Sally while listening to grandiose minecraft haunted house designing

😂😂

I commandeered the telly after the rugby finished - kids have retired upstairs 😂

Also #PrayingForSally 🙏🕯

Thoughts are with her as always in these difficult times