Brexit Arms pop up pops up again!

[time4chocolate]

Quite coincidentally I too have been in negotiations today regarding the pubs licence and it's good news here as well, a deal has been agreed!!

There were no amendments or legal objections put forward so a shiny new licence has been issued and normal service can be resumed

Same rules apply.

Now let's hope Saturday's proceedings can go ahead without the usual dicking around and that what has been nigh on impossible during the last 3 years, a majority, can be achieved otherwise I feel we are off to hell in a handcart!

First drink is on the house 🍻🍷🍻🍷Cheers

54321 trade deals are never "done". That is why we have to get stage 1 resolved (either way) so we can all politely look away and let the technocrats sort the details incrementally. That's how it usually works.

There is, won't be and never was a cliff edge because neither side are prepared to throw their toys out the pram even in a No Deal -the new Deal is the EU's Canada + baseline. Whether or not the 2020 deadline gets extended is entirely academic imho.

"
I stupidly thought the "people" had voted in 2016 and even more stupidly thought democracy was the cornerstone of our society (silly rabbit smile)."
Do you never change your mind when more facts are known and it becomes apparent your initial gut feeling was going to cause disaster?

Do you never change your mind when more facts are known and it becomes apparent your initial gut feeling was going to cause disaster?

....this is what I thought I was being allowed to do.

“I cannot stomach Kier - there's much about him that makes me clench“

What?

Not sure what you mean? The vote in 2016 was to leave. I don't think anyone knew leaving would be this hard and all predictions would be for economic decline. So now we know all this do we have to blindly stick with the result of the 2016 vote? Or can we say now we know what we know it's obvious leaving is a bad idea?

I have a young close relative who , rather foolishly in our collective family view, made a major life decision to leave their job and move somewhere else to much personal fanfare.
And they changed their mind. And had come back because it hasn't worked out.
Rather than "I told you so", we have all said "ok, love, what do you need from us for your next steps, let's work on that (including licking your wounds for a bit)".

Kier is excellent - he explains the facts clearly and is into the detail. Great speaker as well.

Amber Rudd says she will vote for the deal. She then went on to say: “Our government’s own assessments are that it will hurt the economy, I think, by 4% to 6% a year."
Well done her, eh?
And Gove is triggering the oh-so-marvellous Operation Yellowhammer.
So much to look forward to.

the whole Brexit thing is simply a 'process' that needs to bo orked through.

The vote in 2016 to leave, tiggered a mechanism.
UK was supposed to write a WA (withdrawal Agreement and a political Document .
The U K did not really do this, but fannied around so the EU wrote essentially a long list of all legislation that would need to be altered and put it to the lawyers and diplomats of all E27, and Theresa looked at it too and probably gave it a nod, although could not get it through Parliament.so it has not been ratified. the EU have waited pretty patiently for 3 years while the UK tries to work out what it wants, rather than some of the bonkers extremist bullshit from Farage and some others, essentially because the UK government is not quite in control of itself and cannot speak for the whole country.

The contents of the WA are what needs discussing, by UK grown ups if there are any. but when you have some on the sidelines pissing on any form of sensible discussion, you get to where we are now.
£70 Billion is a lot to be wasting on preparations for something that was largely born of a lie.
It was always going to have been a project that would take the best part of 10 years. 3 years in and the UK still does not know what it really wants. and more to the point, what is achievable.

But brexit means brexit.
Presumably these are the people who put in an offer on a house and NEVER change their mind once the survey shows rising damp and a sewer pipe under the house. Because the original offer has to stand.

The issue won't be any more settled by a 2nd Ref 54321.

At "best" it would be 52:48 Remain on a very low turnout and everyone on Remain side would pretend 52% of 20 m trumps 17.4 m.

That's before we started wrangling with the EU about how to fully join in again.

Of course a sizeable number of people will claim to have voted Remain because they objected to the WA so much and thus the 3rd Ref campaign begins.

Not sure what you mean?

The UK has not always been a member of the EU.

There have been many insidious changes over time. The vote isn't only (or shouldn't be) about what's going to happen in the Uk in the short term. "Gut feelings" about the EU of the future are equally important.

Stealth I don't actually have a philosophical problem with a 2nd Ref but it doesn't solve anything. Once people decide to move house they usually do eventually whether the terms of contract, moving date or final choice of house change.

The longer the delay and uncertainty the more damage to the economy and our relationship with EU27 and each other.

“ Gut feelings" about the EU of the future are equally important.”

Really? I don’t want my government to be motivated by “gut feelings”...

At "best" it would be 52:48 Remain on a very low turnout and everyone on Remain side would pretend 52% of 20 m trumps 17.4 m.
Sheer speculation.

I have to admit I think a second ref would either show leave winning again or a very narrow margin for remain. But we'd know that, and how, the people wanted to leave. Not that they wanted to leave but didn't have a clue how (as no one did!)

"Gut feelings" about the EU of the future are equally important.
Jesus wept.

Stealth in that case a quick Yes/No confirmatory vote on the WA is better? The PD or rejoin debate could happen in a GE if the Deal won. If the Deal lost then is the time to discuss new Leave / Remain Ref, while Revoking to give the time for it.

“ Gut feelings" about the EU of the future are equally important.”

Really? I don’t want my government to be motivated by “gut feelings”...

....not quite sure what I'm supposed to say to that? Ty for sharing though :)

Born of a lie?

What born out of what lie?

Certainly not brexit. Brexit is born from 4o years of unsatisfactory eu membership, lived and breathed, seen in action by everyone of us....

And within the dissatisfactory EU membership, we are the 5th largest economy in the world . I’m sure things will be better as we move down the list

...not quite sure what I'm supposed to say to that? Ty for sharing though :)

I tend to just ignore them Greenish 😊

Dusty I think that's good policy, ignore ignore, ignore.

I see these red faces pressed up agaisnt the pub window, verging on combustion, slamming the door open striding in, they slam fists down on bar, swing round then start jabbing fingers at us.

To be honest I wish the ll could just employ a large dog to herd them gently out....

Sunnyuplands
Well if it comes to that I would prefer to pull the cork out and let the UK sink gradually under the waves.
the Uk has done well while a member of the EU and certain things would have been better still if there hadn't been a Tory and UKIP campaign to be stupid arseholes and deliberately prat about

Lol sunny 😂