Westministenders: Slow News Fake News

[RedToothBrush]

Things have been slow whilst we are in proroguation, ahead of next weeks Queen's Speech and the EU summit.

We've been in full spin mode, from the likes of the far right and an unnamed source at No.10.

People seem to be waking up to the reality that its highly unlikely we will get a deal now, unless something significant. And No.10 has worked out the NI problem. FINALLY.

Anyway, if you have a little time this week and you are interested in the history of where technology change and fake news meet and how where we are now is merely things repeating themselves, Ian Hislop's Fake News: A True History, is essential viewing.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00095hv/ian-hislops-fake-news-a-true-history

I really feel strongly this is stuff that should be being taught in schools somehow as its what protects us from extremism.

Tatiana Arguably it would breach the good faith aspect of revocation.

Good point, it's not supposed to be the hokey cokey....

Yes, it's PP'd. So essentially from the person whose name is on the letter. Not from the Court itself.

Legally correct. Morally indefensible.

Luckily the judiciary isn't about morals, it's about law.

Arguably it would breach the good faith aspect of revocation.

Yes, I was ruminating on this while I was digging at the allotment earlier!

I don't buy the idea the Court would be able to say "Oh OK so Hammond can sign instead of our PM" and everyone would say that is hunky-dory. Farage/Francois/Mogg - and that's just the right - Labour would be throwing a fit that no one got a PV on it, die hards from both sides would be shouting 'scandal' and BoZo would be off the front pages again, Courts 'Enemies of the People' once more and EU made to look as though they are happy to believe in a fudge and thus culpable.

So Lady Hale signs the UK up for a 3 month extension
fab
the shit will still hit the fan in January
what is the point of another extension ?

I don't think we're actually going to see this scenario though. Much fun as it is to debate, I believe there will be no new WA agreed, the PV vote will fail, the govt will send the extension letter, resign and attempt to force an election saying the letter was sent under duress. Then we'll go through all this shit again in January or whenever the EU decides to offer an extension.

I'm sick of extensions. The U.K. needs to shit or get off the pot.

My mental health can't cope with more extensions. Though it probably can't cope with no deal either. I'd be alright if I didn't have young kids, I think. But their welfare and future is paramount.

There isn't any point to an extension except that it staves off no deal. It's time that people are still getting their medications and businesses aren't dealing with crazy red tape and everything else no deal entails. I'll take it if it means people aren't suffering.

Even if they are trying to sign through a WA rather than an extension - anything not done "by the book" (even if technically it is), in the eyes of the hardcore of each side (and now Labour if they are insisting on a PV on a new WA) will be passing the hot potato away from BoZo. IMO we need him to be at the helm, even if that means he acts illegally (which may be able to be rectified with a deal later on in other hands) and can never ever hold power in the future.

the govt will send the extension letter, resign and attempt to force an election
But under FTPA only the dumbest of dumb oppositions would allow a GE vote to pass
far far better to make them swim in their own odure

I don't buy the idea the Court would be able to say "Oh OK so Hammond can sign instead of our PM" and everyone would say that is hunky-dory.

Just to clarify, as I understand it, it'd be a court official that signs in the name of the PM, not another politician.

Yes, MShip. The court signs.

Even if they are trying to sign through a WA rather than an extension

Wait what? Who said anything about signing a WA by nobile officium? Can't do that, it has to go through Parliament, royal assent etc.

Thanks fluffy, I'm not a lawyer (probably obvious) and I've had my share of Strictly red wine tonight. Probably time to let Brexit debate go for now, as there will be a 3yo dancing on my head at 5am tomorrow.

Thank the lord mine at least get to 7am these days (mostly!).

". If there's a revoke after a PV remain win, why would the Tory leadership have Brexit in their manifesto at all? "

They would if their voters and membership still want it
If Leavers felt cheated by a referendum where Remain specified the 2 options and didn't allow No Deal
(My NE family say they will fight for Brexit until their dying breath, as will everyone they know)

"Arguably it would breach the good faith aspect of revocation."

A revocation by one party does not bind a govt of another party not to invoke.
"Good faith" just means the same govt / partycannot keep invoking & evoking.

"it’s an absurd idea."

So was having a referendum in 2016 on Remain vs generic Leave
So was Leave winning
So was BJ becoming PM
So was Trump becoming POTUS

Right that's what I mean - WA can't be agreed by BoZo alone, esp if Labour want PV=No Deal and Labour made him do it.

I thought ppl were saying it could be pp'd by Court which was why I was

Then Court would pp the No Deal Benn Act (and take the subsequent flak) as long as we are aware it is going to be No Deal and haven't been hoodwinked by BoZoCum, right?

If BoZo doesn't have a deal by 19 Oct, which is agreed by BOTH the EU and Parliament, then Benn says he has to request an extension. If he fails to do this, then the Court will be approached to PP this letter on his behalf (sent in his name, PP'd by the Court). The EU then has to decide whether to agree / offer a different extension (the latter which either has to be agreed by the PM on his own in 48 - I think - hours, or Parliament will decide). It's fucking TIGHT on time.

listening If BJ resigns, I would expect it to be in order to avoid being forced to call an extension
and to force the rebels to try to agree a PM - which they probably can't - hence an automatic GE

Even if a court official has requested an extension - and the EU agree, which they might not if these negotiations fail -
if he wins a GE he can just wait until the extension ends

His MPs would never try to force him to Revoke, so if they don't pass the WA, that would be No Deal.

Would BoZo resign though? I don't know if he would. It would be last resort if so.

Yes, fluffy and every trick can maybe take a couple of days to squash

btw, Qn, since you seem to be a legal bod:
if time did run out and we Brexit, would any judge really then send / keep him in jail - because an extension would be irrelevant after that anyway ?
Any contempt would be only during about 21-31 October

Yes, so we are back to the Court potentially being reactive.
It's exactly the kind of unknown BoZoCum seem to thrive on; breaking up age-old systems and assuming everyone will be relying on old precedents that are not fit for purpose when we need expediency and clarity for all parties urgently. That's where my money is going anyway.

(a) BJ will not resign - he is too arrogant
(b) If there is a VONC its a 2 week window to form the next government = after Brexit day so its possible that WA approval could be pushed through under a caretaker
(c) An extension does not resolve anything
(d) BJ is 41 seats from a majority and most of "his" MPs hate him like Corbyn so they will vote for their own survival