Brexit Arms - Pop Up

[time4chocolate]

Well I’m going to have a crack at this Landlady business and I’ve opened a pop up pub.

Rules are:
Anything brexit related is up for discussion and even not Brexit related if you feel the need (so if you want to discuss Haemoroids that’s ok too ).

I’m ok with a bit of arseyness (it’s an emotive subject) but if you go full monty in here I reserve the right to withhold all alcoholic beverages.

I have reserved a quiet table for MNHQ if they want to pop in for a quiet drink (Happy Hour is 6-7pm).

Haven’t properly caught up yet with today’s Brexit news yet but looks like we are finally facing end game, that said still plenty of days left for high jinks and holidays.

Anyone have any views on how they think the next few days will play out are welcome to voice here.

First drinks are on the house 🍻 Cheers

bellinisurge But there must customs for Non EU stuff coming in to Ireland, Ports etc, whats to stop Ireland exporting non conforming EU goods, its got to be checked somewhere ?

@Hester54 how do they know they are non-conforming. The single market relies upon every member on the periphery having a clear border. The rest of the EU would treat Irish goods differently because of a porous border and, frankly , the WTO requires you to have control of your customs area. Why should Ireland spend money and resources because it suits the UK?
All Ireland customs area is the only way. Or a joint customs area in NI - the "special economic zone " idea.

Bellini we've discussed the special economic zone on a previous thread (we, as in me & you) - I do think this is the best option & is politically more sellable too

If stuff from NI gets into Ireland, they could easily stop it from leaving, why not have a invisible border in Ireland, it seems very easy, it’s not as we are landlocked with Europe

So what you're suggesting is that ROI joins a UK wide customs area.

It is looking like the EU might just get their first preference after all - NI-only customs union/backstop and U.K. in a very long transition with no say.

Too early to celebrate though, as the Fatberg still has to get this past the ERG (or get enough Labour MPs on board).

@jasjas1973 , fuck, no. NI should join an all Ireland customs union to protect GFA and the single market.

Europe needs that EU army asap

God no. Just more wars and posturing. What we need, is continued international cooperation amongst sovereign nations

Before Trump, yes i agree but Trump isn't interested in co-op, Europe can no longer rely on the US and without their military, europe is wide open.
His actions in Syria will put europe at risk from up to 10,000 former ISIS captives being released, many from the UK.

No single european nation can back up the Kurds and NAO, being a US backed organisation won't assist either.

Europe needs to take responsibility for its own security but given its past, having two or three militarily powerful nations will never end will.

So we need a European only NATO e.g. an EU army.

bellinisurge
But that would make ROI responsible to check and ensure conformity of all ROI/NI exports to the EU. would also mean ROI accepting whatever NI imports from UK.....

Border in the sea between GB and NI.

Nothing goes into NI that isn't compatible with the EU single market.

Why should ROI effectively go back to being part of the UK ?

You don't get it. NI stays in an All Ireland economy which is in the single market. GB can't transfer anything to NI that is compatible with the EU single market. And traders in NI can trade freely with the ROI because they have the same standards and customs checks are only applicable for items that go from NI to GB or vice versa.

That isn't compatible, I mean.

The customs checks are in the UK not in ROI.

Or maybe you can cure it and get me out more

I’m happily married sweetheart

Nicely callous aren't you.

Tone deaf, which is a common affliction of both old age and extreme right.

If we are moving towards a NI-only backstop, with explicit consent from both communities, then personally at this point I'd take that as a win. It will lead to an independent Scotland and an reunited Ireland before I retire and I no longer think either of those are a bad thing.

What's the latest DUP position on a NI only backstop?

No i don't get, i think its a stupid idea.

UK voted to leave, it's up to the UK to sort out the problems.

I still prefer to remain but if the UK has to leave I hope we don’t have a deal agreed between the MP and the EU but again rejected by the House of Commons.

I've been out back playing darts with the youngsters, they're always good for a laugh. bellini do you want a shot? maybe for later?

Anyway, my tuppenceworth (throws log on fire) is:

Imagine there was no EU Single Market in the Island of Ireland.

Recognize the reality of all the people and goods that currently traverse the border now without trouble.

Look at a Map of Europe and UK/RoI - notice the westernmost location of the Island of Ireland and all the seas and ocean that surrounds it.

Try and think of any changes to the goods and people that might traverse the ROI/NI Border if the UK leaves the EU.

What great harmful changes in the movement of goods and people do people envisage if the 'concept' of the SM is removed?

I can't think of too many - if some 'contaminated' milk crossed the border that could still happen now, irrespective of the EU SM.

Maybe someone has some suggestions of what goods and people crossing the border either way results in compromising the EU SM?

the Leave electorate was far more diverse than many people would have you believe. You do not hear it very often but Leave was endorsed by one in three of Britain’s black and minority ethnic voters, large numbers of affluent conservatives, nearly half of 25-49-year olds, one in two women, four in ten people in London, and one in four graduates. We’ve heard much from Boston but nothing from Birmingham. We’ve heard much from retirement homes and working men’s clubs but nothing from university campuses or the cricket grounds

Alternative version using same figures... REMAIN was endorsed by approx 66% of Britain’s black and minority ethnic voters, 73% of 18-24-year olds and 63% of 25-34 year olds, one in two women (not surprising as broadly speaking one in two of voters of both sexes voted remain/leave), 60% of people in London, and around 75% of graduates. Unsurprisingly large numbers of affluent conservatives did NOT vote for remain. We’ve heard much from Nigel Farage on Question Time (33 times I think) and virtually nothing from MEPs who are NOT Brexit supporters, like Richard Ashworth (0 invitations to participate in QT as far as I can ascertain).

Imagine there was no EU Single Market in the Island of Ireland

Why on earth would you even bother to consider a premise that is so completely divorced from reality?

I can't think of too many - if some 'contaminated' milk crossed the border that could still happen now, irrespective of the EU SM.

It’s about the fact that the single market has certain minimum standards for products imported into it.

Currently there is no concern of non-standard products crossing the Irish border because the UK is part of the single market, and so our standards are in alignment.

Were we to leave the single market and leave the border open, then diverge on our standards (say, accepting chlorinated chicken from the US for import to the UK), then there would be nothing to stop non-standard products crossing the Irish border illegally and into the single market.

Chlorinated chicken is one common example, but there are many.

They do have a right to police their imports (and can’t in this instance because of the GFA).

Hatels

So, you think ROI should leave the EU's SM too ?

This exceptionalism by the UK is quite breathtaking.

A minority of UK's electorate voted to leave the EU, its now up to the UK to come up with the solutions not expect other countries to make themselves poorer and compromise their sovereignty solving our problems.

Whatever happens next will upset one community or another in NI.