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Brexit
Original poster

Brexit Arms - Pop Up

999 replies

time4chocolate · 09/10/2019 18:16

Well I’m going to have a crack at this Landlady business and I’ve opened a pop up pubSmile.

Rules are:
Anything brexit related is up for discussion and even not Brexit related if you feel the need (so if you want to discuss Haemoroids that’s ok too Wink).

I’m ok with a bit of arseyness (it’s an emotive subject) but if you go full monty in here I reserve the right to withhold all alcoholic beverages.

I have reserved a quiet table for MNHQ if they want to pop in for a quiet drink (Happy Hour is 6-7pmSmile).

Haven’t properly caught up yet with today’s Brexit news yet but looks like we are finally facing end game, that said still plenty of days left for high jinks and holidays.

Anyone have any views on how they think the next few days will play out are welcome to voice here.

First drinks are on the house WineWine 🍻 Cheers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 22:12

The votes cast in 2016 have been actioned

No. They have not.
We have not left the EU.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 16/10/2019 22:15

Politicians are not above the law and not should they be.

Why do leavers think it's up to remainers to figure a way to solve this shot show that still gets us out of the EU? Why should remainers fix the problem they didn't create? The leave vote was for pie in the sky but they expect remainers to silver serve them a meal of several courses with accompanying drinks and sparkling company. Get your own dinner.

Snowjive2 · 16/10/2019 22:15

Dusty no, it’s the court’s job if asked to do so to issue a declaration that the executive has exceeded its power. It’s the job that the administrative division of the High Court does, day in, day out.

twofingerstoEverything · 16/10/2019 22:16

Jo Maugham QC is lodging an appeal with The Court of Sessions - to be heard on Friday which would prevent the WA being presented to Parliament - We believe the Government's proposed Withdrawal Agreement is contrary to section 55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 you can donate to crowdfunding it here

Original poster
time4chocolate · 16/10/2019 22:17

If there is a way of stopping Boris doing anything stupid

What you mean like putting a deal in front of MPs for them to vote on? Remain MPs would find that very uncomfortable and it would be a very, very stupid thing for Boris to do Wink.

OP posts:
Snowjive2 · 16/10/2019 22:20

Bercows, what a great analogy. Leavers placed an incoherent order for dinner, and now blame the diners on the next table for the fact that their order hasn’t arrived.

Snowjive2 · 16/10/2019 22:23

And the provision of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 which Jo Maugham’s challenge relies upon was an amendment to the Act which Rees-Mogg introduced. Beautiful.

Parker231 · 16/10/2019 22:27

Snowdive2 - even better that it’s a Jacob Rees Mogg amendment!

(1)It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain.

(2)For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1947 as amended.

howabout · 16/10/2019 22:31

Exactly Parker. The whole point of the DUP back and forth is about keeping N Ireland IN the UK Customs territory.

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 22:45

Politicians are not above the law and not should they be.

Agree.

But the courts are not the place for politics & democracy.

We elect MPs to represent us in Parliament, not lawyers to further their own agenda in court.

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 22:48

Dusty no, it’s the court’s job if asked to do so to issue a declaration that the executive has exceeded its power.

No.
That is the job of Parliament.

If govt or PM defies Parliament or acts unlawfully in contempt of Parliament then there is a role for the court.

If Parliament choose not to act it is not the job of the court to intervene in politics.

Snowjive2 · 16/10/2019 22:50

Dusty if you agree that politicians are not above the law, then why do you have difficulty with the idea that it is proper for the court - the guardian and enforcer of the law - to identify when a politician has exceeded his/her lawful power?

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 22:54

Dusty no, it’s the court’s job if asked to do so to issue a declaration that the executive has exceeded its power.

No.
That is the job of Parliament.

If govt or PM defies Parliament or acts unlawfully in contempt of Parliament then there is a role for the court.

If Parliament choose not to act it is not the job of the court to intervene in politics.

Parker231 · 16/10/2019 22:58

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-50076186

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 22:58

Dusty if you agree that politicians are not above the law, then why do you have difficulty with the idea that it is proper for the court - the guardian and enforcer of the law - to identify when a politician has exceeded his/her lawful power?

If you cannot understand my position on this after numerous explanations then I cannot help you.

I will try once more for the cheap seats though:

It is Parliament's job to hold the executive to account.
If the executive defy the will of Parliament or break the law then there is a role for the judiciary.

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 23:05

Please do feel free to point me to the relevant entries in Hansard where:

  • BJ brought forward the WA which contravened section 55 of the Taxation (Cross Border Trade) Act 2018
  • Parliament debated it & pointed this out to him
  • he ignored them & forced the WA through regardless with no vote
  • HoL bounced it back
  • BJ rammed it through again with no vote
  • HoL voted against again
  • BJ ignored everyone & passed the WA regardless, thus exiting us from the EU with a WA which is unlawful.

Try as I might, I cannot seem to find any reference to this. 🤷🏻‍♀️

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 23:11

And Maugham's court case is trying to prevent the govt from bringing a bill before Parliament.

How the fuck is that not interfering with Parliamentary process?!

People with deep pockets get to interfere & pontificate on what business is discussed by our elected representatives?!

Fuck that.

Snowjive2 · 16/10/2019 23:14

Dusty my bad, 35 years’ practice as a barrister must have dulled my wits 🤣
You agree that if the executive acts unlawfully, the court can intervene. You also understand, I think, that the court has pre-emptive power so that if it is satisfied that the executive is likely to act unlawfully in the future, then the court can intervene.

So what is your difficulty with the court declaring, if it is so satisfied, that the “deal” that the executive is propounding is an unlawful “deal”? Of course MPs can challenge it in Parliament, and they should. But that doesn’t somehow preclude the court exercising its jurisdiction to grant a declaration of unlawfulness, if it is satisfied that the petitioner has a valid interest.

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 23:15

For all that I'm vehemently against his actions, it will nonetheless benefit 'my side' (Leave) as it will serve to rile up more people who value democracy & will likely play in BJ's favour in GE

People against the elite writ large.

Subverting democracy in such ways is anathema to the majority of Brits

DustyDiamond · 16/10/2019 23:18

Dusty my bad, 35 years’ practice as a barrister must have dulled my wits

Clearly

Snowjive2 · 16/10/2019 23:19

🤣🤣🤣

Walkingdeadfangirl · 17/10/2019 00:43

Most people are sick to death of Brexit and want our govt to get back to the issues that affect their daily lives most closely

Am I looking at different polls than remainers. The majority want Brexit done, they want out on the 31st. Lets get it over with FFS.

The suggestion that Jo Maugham (lawyers/judges) can stop Parliament from even considering a new law is the literal definition of a dictatorship. WTAF is happening. Democracy is dead, Boris needs to get us out of the EU and start arresting some lawyers and Judges.

Jason118 · 17/10/2019 05:23

@Walkingdeadfangirl um, I think you may have had one too many, perhaps a quiet sit by the fire will help?

frumpety · 17/10/2019 06:25

People with deep pockets get to interfere & pontificate on what business is discussed by our elected representatives?!

Don't know why but that scenario feels vaguely familiar ?

frumpety · 17/10/2019 06:41

Thanks Time for answering my question.

Can Nigel be an MP and a MEP at the same time ?

WTAF is happening. Democracy is dead, Boris needs to get us out of the EU and start arresting some lawyers and Judges

Another strangely familiar scenario Fangirl
Are you suggesting that people should be arrested who have not broken any laws ?
Who decides who is arrested ?
Under which law would they be held ?
If no law has been broken, are you suggesting that they should be held without a trial ?
Where would they be held ? Prison, house arrest, internment camp ?