Brexit Arms - Pop Up

[time4chocolate]

Well I’m going to have a crack at this Landlady business and I’ve opened a pop up pub.

Rules are:
Anything brexit related is up for discussion and even not Brexit related if you feel the need (so if you want to discuss Haemoroids that’s ok too ).

I’m ok with a bit of arseyness (it’s an emotive subject) but if you go full monty in here I reserve the right to withhold all alcoholic beverages.

I have reserved a quiet table for MNHQ if they want to pop in for a quiet drink (Happy Hour is 6-7pm).

Haven’t properly caught up yet with today’s Brexit news yet but looks like we are finally facing end game, that said still plenty of days left for high jinks and holidays.

Anyone have any views on how they think the next few days will play out are welcome to voice here.

First drinks are on the house 🍻 Cheers

I'll have all the coronas you have in stock tonight I think - it's a weird time, feeling that there may be an agreement in sight but knowing that Parliament will put the kibosh on it.

Le sigh 😔

It seems as though BJ & co have heard Bellini's rallying for a sea border?
Will be interesting to see what DUP & ERG make of it.

I suspect ERG will have been told that whip will be removed if they vote against (and they'll not want to lose the whip prior to an election) & according to Nadine Dorries a Labour MP told her that they'd been informed that if they vote in favour of any deal they'll not be allowed to stand as Labour MPs ever again... 😮

My breath is bated in anticipation now...!

It doesn't necessarily equate that a vote cast for Leave=eroding worker's rights.
You obviously missed it in the small print when leave was planning to replace EU trade with USA and Chinese trade with their lower standards.

Will be interesting to see what DUP & ERG make of it.

Weebley wobbley Francois doesn't look like a happy bunny tonight.

Why a merry dance? Since probably Friday we have had, not exact wording obviously but:

There’s a pathway to a deal
followed by
Looks like no deal because the Irish plans haven’t been tested.
followed by We think it’s possible
then
It cant happen without further compromises
followed by
A Deal is imminent and let’s get it done by midnight
It’s still got to be agreed by EU27 and also by Parliament.

All spun out in a media frenzy - basically let’s f**k with everyone’s head. Just my thoughts.

In completely unrelated news a picture jumped off my living room wall tonight & smashed a plug socket off the wall 😩

Am unsure if it is an omen...

Weebley wobbley Francois doesn't look like a happy bunny tonight.

😂 I know!!

Ok just seen Mark F - he is clearly not having a good day!!

Dusty did you see that clip of Weebley Francois running for a bus?

Was awfully funny.

Aaah thanks for the explanation time4 on the latest 'movements' (aka dancing); so I haven't really missed anything other than I chose to miss, more m*feck and media-whipped frenzy.

Numbgo - I am aware of the "small print" interpretations of worker's rights, etc. Also that many low-paid/high unemployment areas also voted Leave. Why do you think that is? Do you think these same areas that historically/pre-EU were the same areas that fought so hard to create Worker's Rights in the first place are going to just let the existing Rights become eroded in a post-Brexit UK?

Pint 5 please LL, then I hope to go home quietly (no singing or dancing) as we need to keep the neighbours affectionate.

Pint 5 pleaseand I

Pint 5 pleaseand I

You’ll be sorry ...

Dusty did you see that clip of Weebley Francois running for a bus?

I saw the clip of him scuttling off from the reporters

He didn't seem too impressed...

I'm not a fan of the hardcore ERG lot even though I'm a brexiter - Steve Baker is the one who really pisses me off, very inflated ego.

Continuity I thought the same too when I read my post - did also laugh loudly at serendipity and myself. I'm going quietly now - Night All.

Hate you need a pint of water now and one for later.

#voiceofexperience

Conservatives 288 plus 10 DUP. So 35 Independents (including 21 ex Tories) holding the balance. Also about a dozen Labour MPs who are not standing at the next election and don't care about losing the Whip (eg Kate Hoey). Looking like Labour and all the rest are pre-programmed to reject any deal. Theoretically possible for a Deal to pass.

Macron reportedly ready to end the misery and Varadkar seeing the benefit of being Deal maker. Perhaps the EU will offer an extension contingent on Parliament passing the Deal - would (I think?) extinguish the Benn Act and force Parliament's hand.

Alternatively we are headed back to square 1.

An EU extension can be agreed on the basis of being terminated early if an agreement is signed off before the end date.

All depends whether (a) an agreement is in sight and (b) Johnson can stomach extending past 31/10 if more time is needed.

Perhaps the EU will offer an extension contingent on Parliament passing the Deal - would (I think?) extinguish the Benn Act and force Parliament's hand

Oooh that’s an interesting one.

It doesn't necessarily equate that a vote cast for Leave=eroding worker's rights.

How can a vote cast for Leave not equal eroding worker's rights? The vote was cast knowing the likely MPs to action that vote would be the Tory Leave campaigners?

It has always been clear sine people like James Goldsmith started to sent the EU that workers and individuals rights was what they resented.

Removal of workers rights was always the transparent agenda. Look at the changes making unfair dismissal claims harder and the imposition of (illegal) tribunal fees that reduced workers bringing claims in the tribunal by a staggering 70%?

Even before the current ERG cabinet members took over, members of the May team like Liam Fox and Priti Patel openly talked about removal of workers rights- saying it was red tape suffocating businesses.

The campaigners told us we wanted to take back control of our laws, remember? As I've said on these threads before, the EU treaties only give very restricted capability to jointly delegate 'control' of some limited laws. The key areas covered are:
1.Environment

1. Workers and consumer's rights and
2. Agriculture food and product safety regs.

This is the protective red tape that certain Tories have been agitating to remove for years.

If a vote for leave did not envisage removal of workers' rights then what was envisaged in the regulatory sphere ? Was it just a vote to remove environmental or food protections?

One of the key objectives for the ERG lot badgering Cameron to hold the ref was that they wanted a reduction in protections for individual workers and consumers. It's simple- companies can operate more easily and make more profit if they can use unprotected workers to produce goods with reduced safety standards.

That's what the Leave vote enabled - thats what democracy 'won' and that's what we are likely getting.

Typos -sorry..

It has always been clear since people like James Goldsmith started to resent the EU, that workers' and individuals' rights was what they resented.

How can a vote cast for Leave not equal eroding worker's rights?

The entire point is that UK will control its own destiny.

If electorate vote in a party which wants to remove all workers rights then that's democracy.
If electorate do not want that, then they won't vote for party advocating that - that's democracy.

UK will be master of its own laws & rules.

Such a remainers trope that leaving the EU means no more workers rights. I suppose it ends womens votes and allows slavery as well.

It’s so interesting on here how the Leave posters are often male - but reject logical thought progression.

What part of the following points do Leavers on here still not understand?

1.	The U.K. always controlled it’s own “destiny”.   The last three years show how we’ve been doing that. The only regulations we agreed to share joint delegated control over ( with a veto) were some basic workers’ and consumers’ rights - plus agricultural and environmental matters.
2.	One of the key objectives for the ERG lot badgering Cameron to hold the ref was that they wanted a reduction in protections for individual workers and consumers.

What part of these points do Leavers still not understand?

To show ignorance of these points 3 years down the road shows a frightening gullibility to permanent Faragist brain washing.

(Obviously women's votes or slavery are absurd examples to use. But it’s really interesting psychologically why a poster would instantly think to use those examples! Constitutional, electoral and criminal matters = UK law. They are not, and never have been, anything to do with the EU. )

Better leave points to make are either:

1.	We now disagree with the regs on workers and consumer rights that were previously agreed to. OR
2.	We were frightened that Germany or France <span class="italic">might</span> one day pressure the Other countries to extend the regulatory remit to other matters

"It seems as though BJ & co have heard Bellini's rallying for a sea border?"😂😂😂😂I thought I was a hated Remoaner in this pub.

But a border in the Irish Sea is no good when combined with a bonfire of rights. So I can't support a WA which combines these two things. It's frustrating that what you get with one hand they take something else away with another, meaning it's still not palatable.

@NoWordForFluffy , I'm working on the basis that rights, if lost, can be won back but peace in NI can't.
There'll be a lot of guff about "British rights" and "British laws" which will appeal to people if the reality of getting shafted sinks in. But you cannot restart peace talks in NI without there first being something dreadful once GFA is screwed.
I'm old. I live through Thatcher. People will claw back any attempts at nobbling workers' rights. But as is evidenced daily on here and in real life, most people in GB don't give a shit about NI.

I dunno. Of course NI is vitally important and needs to be protected. But it doesn't sit comfortably with me to remove the level playing field with rights and standards.

Anyway, I'm not convinced there'll be a viable deal from these talks. And the DUP won't support a border in the sea, so even if there is, I can't see it having the numbers to get through Parliament. Even if the ERG does a volte face on their 'won't vote for any deal' line.