Brexit Arms - Pop Up

[time4chocolate]

Well I’m going to have a crack at this Landlady business and I’ve opened a pop up pub.

Rules are:
Anything brexit related is up for discussion and even not Brexit related if you feel the need (so if you want to discuss Haemoroids that’s ok too ).

I’m ok with a bit of arseyness (it’s an emotive subject) but if you go full monty in here I reserve the right to withhold all alcoholic beverages.

I have reserved a quiet table for MNHQ if they want to pop in for a quiet drink (Happy Hour is 6-7pm).

Haven’t properly caught up yet with today’s Brexit news yet but looks like we are finally facing end game, that said still plenty of days left for high jinks and holidays.

Anyone have any views on how they think the next few days will play out are welcome to voice here.

First drinks are on the house 🍻 Cheers

The point about the WA is that it pleases pretty much no one.

I’m not arguing that it’s needed if we are going to leave but that’s the issue, why are we leaving to be worse off and for everyone to feel aggrieved

Most Leavers won’t feel they’ve left because of the continued alignment to the EU and Remainers will be pissed off because we’re worse off.

The WA not supposed to 'please' anyone. It is simply the legal effects of the UK leaving. You then have to go back to the fundamental question, does the UK want to leave and abandon it;'s ties with the EU and in this case if it does, then a whole pile ofadvantages get scrapped. the WA is just the mechanism and not the answer.
If the UK does not want to leave then the WA becomes unnecessary.
If some form of partial leave is to happen, the particular pages of the WA define how it will happen.

If you get divorced, lawyers step in and in the ensuing discussions, decisions are made as to who keeps the dog/washing machine/candlesticks. If the various items are not handed over then the lawyers are there to ensure it is done properly and take measures to make it happen.
Remainers (and everyone) are already worse off. None of the 'sunny upland' benefits are even remotely just over the horizon. Why is that?
Mayve because leave is a pretty silly idea.

54321 leaving your choice of language aside your logic is all over the place. If the WA states the inevitable legal position why did it take 2 years to cobble it together? If it is a fait accompli what is there left to negotiate indefinitely afterwards? That is before you even consider the dynamic nature of the EU and the Lisbon Treaty and beyond.

You sound even more ridiculous than Grieve et al pompously proclaiming THE LAW as if the Benn Act has/is/and will always be.

So the DUP has said they won't support it anyway.

Its looking like Boris actually has a chance of making a deal. So remainer MPs are now making moves to try and block it, have a longer extension, literally anything rather than exiting with a deal.

Their hypocrisy is overwhelming. It was all lies when they said it was
only about stopping no deal. I am wondering if its a complete waste of time getting a deal because the only way we will ever honour the referendum is with an election and an immediate clean break.

I think exactly the same Walking, it’s pile of 💩 and true colours are shining through. Heard talk of a remainer MPs ‘ambush’ on Sat 19th, not sure how accurate that is, though I wouldn’t be surprised.

They are playing with fire.
The really are.
There are many angry people out there wondering what the hell is going on.

Let's hope whatever is happening just gets through. As long as its legally sound and not brino I don't care.

I feel for us collectively we just need to act on the ref and leave. We can spend years thrashing out the rest of the details from other side.

I agree.

I fully expect the anti-Brexit majority in Parliament to block anything that BJ brings back.
It was never about 'stopping no-deal' and has always just been about stopping Brexit altogether.

When parliament rejects it then there needs to be an extension with immediate GE.

They're on about adding a 'confirmatory ref' as a condition for supporting it as well which is also a load of bollocks as it's not a 'deal' at all, it's a WA for a transition period.

This Parliament is a snake pit of liars & charlatans.

Until we see the details of the deal, it’s impossible to say whether it’s worth going forward with

DUP says no.

https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2019/10/12/news/dupssnigeldoddssrejectsdoubleecustomsbrexittsolutionittcannotworkk-238366257/

We are almost beyond that point Parker because trust in Parliament is zero.

Backs are to the wall.

Leavers may not necessarily care, but Johnson’s basic FTA deal was economically much worse than May’s deal (from Government’s own calculations).

Assuming it is the sea border - would Leavers on here actually be happy with that and then passing the WA?

Getting the very best deal has been denied us by Parliament not accepting the vote so, whilst every negotiation usually runs to the wire... This is worse because our own team is trying and has hobbled us.

Getting the very best deal has been denied us by Parliament not accepting the vote

Could you explain what you mean by that burps? What other deal do you think was possible?

Getting the very best deal has been denied us by Parliament May’s red lines which make the UK border unsolvable.

Fixed it.

The very best deal has been denied us by idiots believing the lies told by the leave campaign...

We already enjoy the best deal.

I think this is the perfect example of the whole Brexit problem - far too many Leavers, even at this stage, still believe there was a better deal to be had.

Which is completely detached from reality.

Bear from the beginning every mp should have accepted the result honourably without ever reneging on it.

Every mind focused on the deal the moment leave won. Differences put aside and solid work on every variable deal, negotiation, solution problem.

Hopefully after the first year.. Possibly slightly longer something acceptable to us would have been forged and passed and put before eu. Leaving a longer time to tweak details BUT from a solid United UK government showing the eu the result is final, unequivocal and whilst open to tweaks.... Leaving is the United ultimate aim.

Instead we have had 3 years of wishy washy obfuscation, lies, smoke, mirrors, back hand deals, shifty sly behaviour.... So the time has been wasted, people have lost total faith in Parliament, there is a schism between government and Parliament and Parliament and the people.

I feel had our mps from the start accepted the result and all worked for the UK we would be in a far better position.

Now bj has to scrabble around being hard core to try and honour the vote but terribly undermined and hobbled by awful mps.

"from the beginning every mp should have accepted the result honourably without ever reneging on it."

Just like Fartage saying that 52% to 48% would be unfinished business. The hypocrisy with Quitlings is constantly a source of amazement...

Every mind focused on the deal the moment leave won.

Unfortunately the UK Government woefully overestimated its negotiating position from the start, seeing it as a political process and not as a legal process.

All that guff about “easiest deal in human history” and “we hold all the cards” and cloak and dagger stuff about not revealing their hand. Meanwhile the EU was setting out its position in clear view.

Farage isn't an MP in WM.

burps how would that have made a difference though?

Are you saying you disagree with the red lines because that’s the only way any deal could have been any different?

howabout
The WA is a summary of the legal positions betwen the UK and the EU.
The UK in this case 'are' the law, not whatever bollocks bojo or anyone in the UK comes up with. They are legally binding treaties across all 28 countries (at present) so if BoJo wants to play tiddlywinks in the corner, whatever he comes up with (or indeed anyone in the UK,cannot overrule the 'laws' and reaties of the EU.
Signing up to the WA is ONLY an acceptance that the 585 pages are an accurate representation of treaties that need looking at and having signed up to it, the proper negotiations can START.
It took 2 years to be written because the contents were written by lawyers of ALL 28 countries and approved by all 28 'heads of state or respective parliaments.
BoJo and the MPS can play their 'pissing up the wall' game as much as they like using whatever UK laws they like, but ultimately it is bugger all difference to the EU as The UK Laws ONLY affect the UK and they npot transfer upwards back to the EU.
The VERY BEST deal is actually to remain in the EU and so far no one has managed to present credible figures to claim otherwise. You can all pull your hair out and scream betrayal or any other bollocks that the likes of Farage and other idiots spout. Their figures do not add up in the reality of the planet in 2019/2020. Sucking up to the USA and or China will not give the UK a good 'deal' but the vested interests of disaster capitalists will be happy as the UK gets trashed.
The basic maths of 3 years ago has not gone away, but oportunities for 'average citizens have reduced..