Westminstenders: The Slow No

[RedToothBrush]

Have to make this quick.

Johnson has made an 'offer' to the EU. Let's stress this isn't a deal because they haven't agreed.

The EU have made kind noises about it but will say no thanks.

The UK are expecting this, and despite what's been said apparently are expecting more negotiation on this.

The DUP and the ERG seem to be on board with the proposal meaning in theory Johnson might have numbers to get through parliament. Except its not a deal so this is currently meaningless.

Parliament is prorogued again from next week with the Queen's Speech the following week.

the cat Yes, it is confusing re expulsion

The 21 rebels were expelled from the Parliamentary Party, so permanently losing the whip
Also, BJ said no Tory constituency association or regional party organisation may select them as a candidate for any office - which includes MP, mayor, councillor etc

I don't know if they were also expelled from ordinary party membership - some reports may be using inexact language,
e.g. "Johnson expelled the MPs from the Tory Party " in

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-government-former-tory-leader-william-hague-slams-expulsion-of-rebel-mps-as-disgusting-act-of-hypocrisy/

I expect @red can confirm exactly

Just seen that Nazanine Zahghari-Radcliffe is trying to send her young daughter to UK for school.

I hope she survives not seeing herndaugjternevery week.

Its heartbreaking what this innocent woman had bad to go through

Silly words from a horrible man made the situation so much word.

And now hes got all of our lives in his hands.

Terrifying

Oh, I see where you're going, BigChoc.

No, I was wondering why he didn't try as an Independent MP somewhere.

But I think Onni has put forward a good explanation.

Khan has imo been probably the best Labour performer on Brexit,
also calm & dignified wrt the disgraceful racist attacks on him from Trump

He gets a lot of stick, including on MN, whereas BJ was Teflon as Mayor

Nazanine is an ongoing tragedy, Random.

I unambiguously ❤️ Sadiq.

BJ is definitely a FFFS (Failed Former Foreign Secretary)

Stormont party veto could be ditched for Brexit, says minister

That's disgusting.

That would be for Brexit only, not allowing DUP MLAs to bugger up not only NI but Ireland too

• Varadkar said he wouldn't accept a minority in NI being able to being able to block alignment with the EU and hence choosing the 2 borders

Fabian Zuleeg@FabianZuleeg (European Policy Centre, Brussels)

Nothing that has happened in last 24 hours makes me reevaluate this, on the contrary.

EU27 making it clear to UK that this isn't the basis for a deal & that there will need to be significant changes to start negotiations. Also questioning whether UK is negotiating in good faith

My conclusion on EU27 reaction to UK proposals:

behind scenes unanimous rejection of core elements (customs, consent):
unacceptable & unworkable.

Many asking whether designed to be rejected?
But EU unwilling to accept blame so showing willingness to negotiate.

No basis for a deal

Tom Hayes@BEERG

... Johnson attempting to outsource Brexit pain to island of Ireland while UK Brexits without the economic hit of no-deal.

And then hold Ireland hostage in talks on future EU/UK relationship.

Not a proposition Ireland can buy.

A great deal of UK Irish border proposals kicks talks into transition phase as future UK/EU deal negotiated.
No doubt,

UK would try to leverage Irish border talks to force concessions on UK/EU mainland border.

One hole in SM would beget more such holes.

Did anybody really think Johnson was actually serious about this so called "deal"?

Brexiters may also start court action:

Daniel Kawczynski@DKShrewsbury

Following personal meeting with Barristers today I have shared written legal advice on loopholes in ‘Surrender Act’ with colleagues.

Barristers believe we have case to take to Courts and encouraging me to pursue.

Reflecting over weekend. @StandUp4Brexit @asabenn #Brexit

Back to NI. I have an interest.

The DUP do NOT represent anyone except their own bigoted and isolated cohort now. They have far too much power relative to those whom they profess to represent. Varadkar called this out, so naturally he has been castigated for this by certain UK media. And that wonderful MP Lady Sylvia Hermon said the same thing in Parliament the other day also.

The NI farmers (who in fairness are/were DUP supporters) are not happy now either.

But it was all fine up to now, but such people seem to be afraid to say anything lest they inflame the Sectarian Divide once again. How awful.

I lay the blame at the DUP door. They care for no one really but are safe in the knowledge that they have power in NI that they never thought they would ever have. And can boss ROI around too now, lol.

Fintan O’Toole: Boris has destroyed what is left of UK’s credibility

Scathing, but BJ deserves it
Probably what Varadkar & most of Ireland are thinking

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-boris-has-destroyed-what-is-left-of-uk-s-credibility-1.4039055#.XZZeB10oCLM.twitter

What is being compromised?
And who is Johnson compromising with?

The answer to the second is obvious:
the proposals are a compromise, not with the EU, but with the DUP.

And what is being compromised is the credibility of the UK as a partner in any international negotiations.

Though the EU and the Irish government are too polite to say so directly,
Johnson’s plan destroys any remaining sense that the current regime in London is capable of sticking even to its own self-declared principles.
....
Section 10(2)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 explicitly commits the UK
not to “create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day
which feature physical infrastructure, including border posts, or checks and controls,
that did not exist before exit day and are not in accordance with an agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU”.
...
The British government has broken its own solemn legal and political commitments.

Faced with a choice between compromising with reality and fatally comprising trust,
Johnson has chosen the second option.

How does autocorrect make Indonesia from London

Sorry as you were.

The standard of reportage from ROI outlets like the Irish Times, RTE, (Tony Connelly) The Examiner and so on is leaps ahead of similar in UK. Sorry now, but it is the truth.

Always look for a different view from abroad and balance it out.

Somehow miss the L, do the rest, phone goes mad, @Basilpots?!

Westminster voting intention polls seem late this week ?

Dmitry Grozoubinski@DmitryOpines

The UK may now be headed for an election featuring Mr Johnson, who will pretend he wanted a deal,

and Mr Farage, who will pretend to believe him.

There's this, Basil:

Britain Elects**@britainelects

Westminster voting intentions:

CON: 32%
LAB: 24%
LDEM: 21%
BREX: 13%
GRN: 4%

via @BritainElects poll tracker, as of 03 Oct

Tory Party is an odd beast in that it does not strictly speaking exist.

There are local associations federated to the National Union. The only 'members' are the associations, not the individuals.

Anyway, the R4 News Quiz had a new analogy tonight. Leave with No Deal is a parachute made of lettuce. You know it won't help, but you'd still pull that cord.

Bonnie Greer: telling it like it is ...

www.rte.ie/news/brexit-countdown/2019/1004/1081097-brexit-reaction/

rte.ie
Greer 'surprised' by reaction over Ireland comments
3-4 minutes

American author and playwright Bonnie Greer has said that she was "very surprised" and "grateful" following the reaction to her defence of Ireland during a BBC television debate.

It came after she appeared on a panel discussing Brexit last night where she said that Ireland owes the UK "nothing".

She also warned that no trade deal will ever be agreed with the United States if it "shafts Ireland".

She also pointed out that the Good Friday Agreement is "a truce" that was agreed between the UK, Ireland, US and European Union and she said it needs to be taken more seriously.

Ms Greer, who writes for The New European newspaper, is from Chicago but has lived in the UK for over 30 years.

Speaking on RTÉ's Drivetime, Ms Greer said that she has been receiving messages from Australia and California, with people saying 'thank you for standing up for Ireland’.

"I didn’t know that I was, I just thought that this was common sense," she said.

Ms Greer said she thought that a lot of British people who responded to her following her comments did not understand that the Good Friday Agreement was a "truce".

"They don't seem to understand that Ireland is a sovereign country, and that it is [in] Europe," she said.

"The fact of the geography of the island of Ireland, is not Ireland’s fault. I thought that this was all kind of taken for granted and I’m very surprised and happy at the response, but I’m surprised that the British seem so stunned by it."

In relation to the relationship between Ireland and the US, Ms Greer said that the British public are not aware of the ties between the two countries.

"The truth of America, it is an Irish country. Many Americans can trace Irish ancestry, and not just white Americans - Barack Obama has Irish ancestry, I probably have Irish ancestry somewhere. People just do, that is the reality.

"When Americans use the term 'old country', they're not talking about England, they’re talking about Ireland. You may say that it is very sentimental, but the feeling is there. They have no feeling for England at all, other than it is a charming place and we like to visit it.

"America is Irish. It’s German, it’s Spanish, it’s Latino, it’s Jewish, it’s indigenous Americans, it’s all these things - it’s not English. And that’s very important to say."

Read:
More Brexit stories

Ms Greeer reiterated that there will be no trade deal between the US and the UK if it appears to hurt Ireland.

She made reference to Speaker of the US House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi, who visited Ireland last April.

At the time, Ms Pelosi said a trade agreement between the US and the UK will not happen if it undermines the Good Friday Agreement.

"The fact that the British, in particular, are being led down some sort of rose garden path, thinking that the United States is going to somehow spring to their rescue in relation to a US/UK trade deal - not if it hurts Ireland, or appears to hurt Ireland. It’s not going to happen," Ms Greer said.

Emphasising the strength of feeling towards Ireland in the US, she described last night how in Chicago on St Patrick's Day the river is dyed green.

"People are very serious about Ireland in the United States. Don't mess with it. Don't make it look bad".

Ahhh @BigChocFrenzy now I have to go and look for the Don’t know/don’t care...

I will be back ....

In fact there are more people in USA of N.Irish Protestant descent than those of southern Irish Catholic origins, but they mostly came earlier and in better circumstances than the mid-19th century and do not hark back to any 'old' country any more.

It was the USA that gave us Fenianism, de Valera and Noraid. As Mayor Daley Snr once said to Taoiseach Jack Lynch, 'Don't lecture me about Ireland from three thousand miles away.'

Can't link but there's an article in the Independent about ongoing meetings between the US and the british government. They are hoping to discard the promises made by teresa may to remain in alignment with Eu standards. It talks about employment, food and h&s standards being relaxed to make trade between the two countries more 'flexible'. Quite blatant quote from liz truss about it. They seem to be moving frighteningly fast in some respects don't they ?