Boris’s Irish solution - is it workable?

[elprup]

It seems like it could be a viable solution to me, although I’ll admit that I’m by no means an expert on the subject. What do you think?

www.rte.ie/news/brexit-countdown/2019/1003/1080810-brexit-reaction/

Varadkar has said claims by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson that there would no new customs infrastructure anywhere on the island of Ireland were in contradiction with the UK paper submitted to the EU yesterday.

According to an explanatory note which accompanied the UK legal text, physical customs checks would happen at "designated locations" as well as business premises.

In the House of Commons this morning Mr Johnson said there would be no new infrastructure anywhere on the island of Ireland.

He seems to be incapable of telling the truth.

whyamidoingthis

There's a difference between 'no new infrastructure' and 'no infrastructure' of course. Politicians love crafty wordplay!

There's a difference between 'no new infrastructure' and 'no infrastructure' of course. Politicians love crafty wordplay!

That is true. So they could use the premises vacated by all the businesses going wallop because of the excessive cost of the plan on companies. The would be adapted infrastructure rather than new infrastructure.

Boris the Bodacious in action again.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49925239

His infrastructure or non infrastructure is not going to be policed anyway

His infrastructure or non infrastructure is not going to be policed anyway

Is that the police equivalent of mutiny?

HMRC in Hi-Viz in a lay-by?

Almost as good a target as Redcoats at Spion Kop.

The neck of that woman talking about consent. This gives the DUP a veto on the all Ireland aspects and no one any say on the rest.
The people of NI do not consent to this. The majority want remain but would settle for the back stop.

Not one other political party in NI supports this and no civic groups or business/farming organizations either.

When even the police want distance from it there is a serious problem.

@Inniu - that would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

The notion of the DUP referring to anyone else as obstructionist and intransigent is sheer comedy.

Her statement, and all the stuff Boris the Belligerent is coming out with about it being a "reasonable offer", are playing into the rhetoric that the EU are unreasonable and the ones who are forcing a no deal through.

She's hopefully on borrowed time (politically). Tbe Unionist community included a sizeable percentage of Remain voters- as shown by th overall vote in NI which must have included people from the majority community.
That kind of rhetoric is going to play well with fewer and fewer people given the overwhelming vote for the status quo.

It is to be ardently hoped that the NI voters will take a look at what the DUP/SF duopoly has got them at Westminster so they might consider the alternatives more favourably next time.

SF in particular are hoist by their own posturing petard. Their votes could have stopped this madness.

She knows the DUP is a sinking ship in NI because of the last farcical 2 years with Stormont being closed preceded by her disastrous and costly cash for ash scheme.

People are fed up with both DUP and Sinn Fein because we can’t access the same cancer drugs as GB ,our schools are financially broke, our health waiting lists are a thousand times longer than GB and business are going bust left right and centre. That is what people here really care about... jobs health and education. We are not interested in fighting with each other.
But when Arlene and Michelle think they might lose votes they always stir the pot with the same old rhetoric...

Arlene : “vote for us and prevent a united ireland or you’ll all be speaking Irish”
Michelle: “ vote for us and get the Brits out”

They get their votes based on fears.

Does she seriously think us folks in NI think she is in any way competent to run the business affairs of NI. One of their strongest voting towns Ballymena has had 3 major employers go bust recently.. just last week 1200 jobs went in Wrightbus who ironically made Boris London buses. People are not happy. Smaller businesses will close as a knock on effect...and this is before Brexit happens

Alliance who are a middle party is gaining ground so arlenes use of this language towards the Irish govt is designed to make her look like she is keeping the Irish from telling us what to do in front of unionists

Can’t wait to see the back of both of them

That's really interesting Bubbery. It would be great to see a much more centralist party taking control in NI.
How could that happen though?

Could the SDLP, Greens and Alliance make an electoral pact?

The Ulster unionist leader tried recently to encourage voters to use their transfers ( we have an STV system here) towards moderate parties in an attempt to try and dilute the bigger 2 but it failed miserably for him due to the politics of fear instilled by the dupers and shinners

Although many unionist voters do already transfer to the sdlp who are a moderate nationalist party because they would rather have them than Sinn Fein.

Greens don’t describe themselves as unionist or nationalist so they generally only get liberal and environmental voters or transfers from the others

Alliance were traditionally a moderate unionist party but keen on equality for all etc
Nowadays they are more on the fence so they attract voters from both sides

I think through time the younger voters are more becoming more aligned to the alliance and green liberal policies.

Of course the media never talks about the people who describe themselves as having no religion or no political alignment and this is a growing group. People aren’t as completely divided along catholic and Protestant lines as most would think. We have many many mixed marriages here with the offspring being jokingly coined as “halfa Jaffa’s ” locally. ( ie half orange half green). I am one myself and I know absolutely loads of people the same. We just get labelled as one side or the other depending on what school we went to.

So hopefully the trend towards alliance and the others just continues leading to us voting in the moderate parties very soon

For as long as education is segregated change will be slow

Compromise is possible. I realised just how powerful compromise can be this morning when I was watching the Ireland/Russia rugby match.

In 1995 the IRFU commissioned a new anthem due to conflict over national anthems as rugby is a 32 county sport.

Have a read of this article about it, then watch/listen to the power it conveys when crowd sing it in a stadium.

www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjMgvni_IDlAhUBxIUKHUEvARwQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2019%2Faug%2F10%2Firelands-call-derided-rugby-dirge-song-for-unity-irish-anthem&psig=AOvVaw3etcxhZrKNm51AzD8VzQIP&ust=1570222497972772

Noone who had a machine gun stuck in their car while taking their kids on holidays would ever agree on a border.
Noone who's friend had their tshirt cut from their body on the street in Belfast because there were orange sleeves would ever want to return to the past.
Noone who didn't go shopping on a Saturday because there might be bombs without warning would think bringing back those tensions would be a good idea.
Noone who was burnt out of their family business in the 70s and forced to move to a refugee camp in the Republic would think Boris has any idea what he's talking about.
The reality is that all those things happened to me or people I know. Because Northern Ireland was a war zone. Because Northern Ireland could easily become one again if borders and checks are returned.

The arrogance of the British government, the idea that Ireland can be some sort of collateral damage, is utterly frightening.
History needs to be learned from and never repeated

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-uk-customs-proposal-alarms-north-s-business-community-1.4036617?mode=amp&_gl=1%2A1ea8muu%2A_ga%2AYW1wLXNhTVhtQU5Fb0o5aUtXSWtGUW1YNi04T0J5M3VHT1RkNHdXMno2V3dqRW9hT1lCTDI5YmxCajlmU1UxYmJJM2Q.

@WhatWouldJohnSay Yep. A friend of mine is from Belfast and lives in England, and is genuinely frightened of the Troubles starting again, and she's fed up with being laughed at by people who didn't have to live through it.

Ireland's No Deal contingency plans are for checks away from the border
so BJ's proposals are no better for them

In fact worse for them than No Deal, because it fixes the 2 borders for decades - until NI votes to re-unite

In contrast, after No Deal it is v likely that a future UK will sign up to an NI backstop,
because this is one of the preconditions the EU have stated, before starting trade talks - even "minideals" - after a No Deal Brexit

I do think that many people in England don't understand what the people of Northern Ireland have had to live with prior to the GFA.
Just as @WhatWouldJohnSay has said. The sheer terror & frustration that eventually becomes everyday even though you know it isn't right. Having to make sure you get up a little earlier than normal each day as you have to check under your car (to make sure there isn't a bomb underneath it) before you go to school/work.
The things my Northern Irish friends have told me about the Troubles, I have no words.....

Considering it is the most recent civil war in UK history you would think it would be taught about in schools.

@blubberyboo too many uncomfortable truths for English schoolchildren to have to face up to, especially when you consider who's been in charge of education policy for most of the past decade or so...

Very interesting programme on RTE during the week called No Stone Unturned. It was about the collusion of police/special branch in the Loughinisland Massacre.

As Education Secretary, Ken Clarke decreed that History stopped at 1945 and there was nothing to be learned by anything after that.