Boris’s Irish solution - is it workable?

[elprup]

It seems like it could be a viable solution to me, although I’ll admit that I’m by no means an expert on the subject. What do you think?

So while it may have happened long before the GFA Ireland was still concerned about how entering the schengen zone would impact NI and the common travel area, so opted out

Last checkpoint was removed in 2005 I remember?

The backstop prevents a hard border ever in Ireland

Sorry you're right!

So the British Government wants to tear up an International Treaty because it's inconvenient for them, and the Irish need to change? No, how about the British needing to change their outlook, and realise that they are no longer ruling the world via a big Empire which enabled them to ride roughshod over others?

The only thing this UK government “proposal” does is further insult Irish people, north and south, thereby making a United Ireland an even more attractive prospect.

Yes and schengen would have caused a hard border, so Ireland opted out. The common travel area has been there since the 1920's

The only thing this UK government “proposal” does is further insult Irish people, north and south

Agreed.

That’s just an added bonus Somerville. I can’t help if this might be a ploy to get the EU to refuse an extension.

I’m not sure you could blame them for refusing after this stunt.

It’s a load of shit. He knows it will go down like a lead balloon but he doesn’t care about insulting the nationalists of NI in the process as long as it gets him a majority in the next GE.

This is not a serious proposal and wasn’t ever intended to be, its electioneering.

UK and Ireland opted out of Schengen in 1992. Long before the GFA was finalized.

The initial opt-out was because of the CTA and ensuring that passports were not required to cross the border to NI. However, there were rumblings at various stages since then about joining but it was always dismissed due to the CTA and the GFA.

Correct. Buy WhyAmI likes to think it is a scoring point.

Ireland opted out initially to avoid passport checks and to protect the CTA. Ireland have, on a number of occasions, ruled out joining post GFA. I repeatedly use it as an example of how a country can act with integrity wrt peace and international agreements in response to your statement that A50 allows any member to leave with no deal.

It's very simple. Sometimes you can't have everything you want because you have other obligations.

Maybe not aware that UK and Ireland opted out of Schengen before GFA was signed?

Bit rich coming from someone who doesn't know the Irish and NI AGs are different people.

No, it's bananas. Even the Telegraph (in their Front Bench newsletter this morning) suspect it is a disingenuous offer designed to make the EU look unreasonable in rejecting it. As PPs have said, Peter Foster explains why it is not workable.

And just to add, the EU parliament have already agreed that an extension will be granted, should the UK request one: www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20190912IPR60929/brexit-new-european-parliament-reaffirms-wholehearted-support-for-eu-position

SDLP Leader, Colum Eastwood, has referred to Johnson as the 'Brexit Godfather':
It is clear that he now sees himself as the Brexit Godfather, making an offer that the EU can only refuse. The British Government is accelerating toward a no-deal exit on 31st October and it must be stopped.

[https://www.thejournal.ie/boris-johnson-no-deal-brexit-2-4833092-Oct2019/]

Why can't a time-limited backstop be brought in? Would that not work out for everyone?

Why can't a time-limited backstop be brought in? Would that not work out for everyone?

Because if it is time limited it is not a backstop.

What happens when we reach the deadline and have no alternative solution in place?

@BunchMunch - Why can't a time-limited backstop be brought in? Would that not work out for everyone?

How would it do anything other than kick the can down the road? A time-limited backstop is not a backstop. The purpose of the backstop is to protect the GFA. Once alternative solutions to the border are in place, the UK can leave the backstop. Despite conspiracy theories, the EU have no interest in holding the UK in the backstop once the GAF is protected.

If it is time-limited, there may or may not be a solution in place at the end of that time period and we're back where we started with a potential hard border.

When you say Would that not work out for everyone? you seem to be confusing England with everyone. It would certainly not work for Ireland and NI. I suspect it wouldn't work for Scotland or Wales either but they don't really have much say.

The "plan" not only kicks the problem down the road but lands it in someone else's garden.

No, it won't work. It hasn't been designed to work. It's been designed to look reasonable enough to be a decent stab at it to Leavers, and to stoke the argument that "the EU won't be reasonable, therefore we need to leave with no deal".

BoJo's conference speech on now is interesting - his position is 'this deal or no deal by 31st October'. The question is whether his opponents in Parliament can get themselves together and force an extension.

(Behind the perception this sham-deal is trying to create is something else: the fact that many Leavers just don't give a damn about Northern Ireland).

It's ridiculous. I would rather have checks on the actual border than this buffer zone idea. I regularly drive from Dublin to Donegal, if there is trouble at the borders after Brexit I would at least like to have the option of going the long way round via Sligo. With this idea I would have no way of avoiding the 'border'.

And just to add, the EU parliament have already agreed that an extension will be granted, should the UK request one: www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20190912IPR60929/brexit-new-european-parliament-reaffirms-wholehearted-support-for-eu-position

Yes but that's not EU leaders. They can decide what they like.

But this is all sooooo stupid. FGS just say we'll stay in the SM and CU and we can all move on, and even leave on time on 31 October!

"FGS just say we'll stay in the SM and CU and we can all move on,"

This would be a sensible answer and one that, ultimately, the majority of the country could probably live with!

Or there’s always the other option, acknowledge that the general public was profoundly misinformed in the run-up to the referendum, and hold another one with actual information on series of actual possibilities, rather than lies and airy handwaving, and the acknowledgement that any withdrawal from the EU will be worse than the status quo? While pointing out to the more politically illiterate sectors of the voting public that, voting for ‘no deal’ is not a magic solution meaning you will never again hear the word ‘Brexit’ on the news? Because half the time that appears to be what people mean when they say ‘Get Brexit done!’ — they’re just bored and want different headlines.

Remain supporters beginning to panic I think?

Second referendum was ruled out by parliament. Opposition afraid of a General Election because they have worked out it will most likely result in a Brexit and Conservative coalition.

Remain MPs who come from constituencies that voted leave will be voted out in a general election.

'The only thing this UK government “proposal” does is further insult Irish people, north and south, thereby making a United Ireland an even more attractive prospect.'

Very much so. I've grown up in a unionist family in NI and would vote for a united Ireland in a border poll with pleasure after this debacle.

Based on some posts, not sure if Ireland wants to inherit Northern Ireland?