Westminstenders: The Tory Party Spectacular

[RedToothBrush]

A row over parliamentary language and conduct and how MPs are afraid of extremists has over shadowed talk of Brexit.

Cummings has said if you don't want to leave without a deal, vote for a deal.

Yet there isn't a Johnson approved one in front of the Commons and the EU are utterly despairing of Johnson's blank non papers and his full on Trump bullshit.

Then there's the threats to the rule of law.

Apparently there are five known suggestions to bypass the Benn Act and refuse to ask for an extension.
See Twitter Thread Here

This weekend sees the start of the Tory Party Conference. With a parliamentary vote to block a recess, its rather scuppered plans for the rest of the conference. Johnson's planned speech at the conference clashes with PMQ so he may well not attend the Commons.

Expect the conference to be.... Er... Inflammatory...

Following on from the Queen checking to see how she can go about sacking a PM - it's now being reported (guardian, sky news and the independent) that this would definitely be on the cards if he doesn't abide by the Benn bill.
Dominic Grieve said the Queen will dismiss him.

I think a lot of the upper and upper middle classes supported Hitler. Read Travellers in the Third Reich to get a flavour of this. This included people who IMO ought to have known better. Not all people were enamoured of Hitler, to be fair.

I think Hitler and the Nazis were genuinely taken by surprise when Britain declared war on them - they thought that we would sit out the conflict.

Has interest in the Nazi period intensfied? DB's comics from the 1950s had constant story lines of fighting the Germans. I think then for the 1960s and 70s people managed to put the War to rest. It's intensfied since 2010 with the anti-EU stance of the Tory party.

From the BBC website just now:

Pippa Crear from Daily Mirror loudly booed by audience, and shouts of "shame on you" when she asks question about language in House of Commons on memory of Jo Cox. At Bruges Group "The moment of truth" session with Arlene Foster, Mark Francoise and John Redwood

Re my post above - remember it wasn't just the Duke of Windsor and the Mitfords who enthused about Hitler; it was significant numbers of the upper and upper middle classes. The post quoted shows that their descendents are no better.

If something causes public opinion to change significantly, as it did with the War and we were against Hitler, a lot of those people enthusiastically booing when inflammatory language in the HoC is criticised, will suddenly find that they have lost their memories.

I think Hitler and the Nazis were genuinely taken by surprise when Britain declared war on them - they thought that we would sit out the conflict.

Hitlers plan was to unite with Britain to fight the "Jewish menace". He was encouraged by his own delusions, the actions of borderline traitors (will we ever see the MI5 files) like the Duke of Windsor, and most damagingly by a cabal of sycophants who had learned that you never say "Nien, mien Fuhrer". As with all psychopathic despots, he became completely unaware of the real world. The scene in "Downfall" where he's ordering all these non-existent divisions around being a wonderful portrayal of reality meeting fantasy in his world.

The fact so many Germans misjudged the British should stand as a stark warning to the British not to do the same in return. I have no problem with the knuckle-dragging-drooling Brexiteers insisting that Brexit will be fine because of German car manufacturers. But it's more worrying when the grown-ups start believing the hype.

hester Alistair Burt is there, he was talking about it on radio 4 last night. He said he and his wife both went and felt comfortable there. He talked about having spent 40 years in the party and having lots of friends.

guardian reporting opposition parties say no VONC this week

pretty Matt Hancock was interviewed on C4 news last week.

I do not think he looked comfortable or convinced by what he was saying.

The wealthy British sympathisrs probably had the same motivations as the wealthy Germans who helped Hitler to power:

they wanted someone to wipe out communism & socialism - to protect their wealth -
and they decided Hitler was the most ruthless & most likely person to do that

Some socialists were initially duped by the party name - "National Socialist" - but as soon as Hitler no longer needed them, were dumped (in fact wiped out alongside the Nazis other targets)

Rather like Lexiters now have been conned, but would be dumped as soon as No Deal has been achieved.

What's the point of Sajs speech?

All I can hear is him attacking Labour.

Speaking of Matt Hancock, am I alone in being mildly surprised that at the low key reaction of MN to the news about possible compulsory vaccinations ?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vaccination-children-law-conservative-conference-tory-matt-hancock-nhs-a9125371.html

If I were a less than scrupulous Remainer (or indeed just from sheer curiosity ) it would be interesting to state that if you want to avoid this, you need to Remain in the EU.

DGR can you imagine if Labour had suggested this policy?

I have mixed views about this.

I have absolutely no time for people who di not vaccinate. I know I will offend but I don't care.

But do you take away the choice of a parent? I don't know.

As I say mixed feelings.

I am sure Leavers will say we can do this now because we are leaving EU!!

DG I was also astonished
I posted the story on here a couple of days ago and noone commented

But do you take away the choice of a parent? I don't know.

I do know that you don't take away the consequences of their choice ... (which is a recurring theme on this series of threads in some ways)

DG I was also astonished I posted the story on here a couple of days ago and noone commented

It does raise questions about how many MNetters are actually parents ?

DS had "the lot". Not quite sure why a dead child is preferable to an autistic one if that was the risk matrix we were supposed to be grappling with, but it was (and remains) a straight no brainer. Maybe Wakefield had shares in a baby coffin company ?

I saw someone on one of the Indy supporting groups saying that food produce had to have the Union flag (and not the saltire) on it because of EU regulations (this was on a thread about BJ going to insist on Union flags being displayed on all projects funded by WM).

Funny how Lidl and Sainsbury's can have just the Saltire on them (had a Scottish leg of lamb yesterday from Sainsbury's and noticed the Saltire and regularly get Saltire flagged soft fruit from Lidl no Union flag ).

I couldn't be bothered correcting him.

Compulsory vaccinations are a contentious subject.
I don't think that dc should be taken and vaccinated against their parents will but I have no issues with them not being able to access schooling without this happening or them having a medical exemption certificate.
The state in the USA where we are insists on this for both private and public schools.

I see the Boris/groper thread has been deleted. What on earth could have been said??

I think it was deleted because the last thing women should be doing is victim blaming and saying that historical abuse doesn't matter.

Randim18 - I too have mixed views. I too have no time for those that don't vaccinate and put other children (and adults) at risk (including those that can't be vaccinated, either because they are too young or because of contra-indications) - but think that education, rather than compulsion is the answer.

I'd be interested to know more about why the vaccination rate in England is so much worse than in Scotland

[Boris grope thread]

I think it was deleted because the last thing women should be doing is victim blaming and saying that historical abuse doesn't matter.

I glanced at the thread and was a little ... taken aback that on MN of all places, it suddenly seemed that historical abuse was of no importance (and indeed questionable to begin with).

Maybe little occurrences like that will start to really bite with the women the Tories will need to win anything ? Although given there are still proud Tories despite the rape clause, it seems sisterhood is a myth.

OK. It's no good. It's time to reset the universe. Let's see if this works ....

I am imaginng HMQ's inner monologue:

'Fuck it! Who's the fucking Queen? Fuck off, Johnson. Corgis, Kill!!!'

The Saj has just announced changes to the NMW which will bankrupt much of the public sector
classy