Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: What hangs in the balance?

965 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2019 08:16

Yellow Hammer (and Black Swan if it exists) and other documents the government itself has produced are our truths and our evidence.

I look to Thomas Jefferson quotes in trying to defend liberal democracy.

His most famous of quotes is

Thomas Jefferson was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

Self evident truths. These are the bedrock of democracy.

There are many more quotes from Jefferson which talk about the shining beacon of truth and the threats to liberty from falsehoods and those who tell them.

He argued that when the power of the state is used to avoid scrutiny we should be worried and afraid. As a leader he should never be afraid of the truth, because the truth always exists and you can only merely hide it before it makes itself apparent anyway.

“The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.”

Today I feel the need to dust off old Jefferson for my own sanity and to remind myself of what matters. Jefferson helps me focus on dangers and how you fight back. It always comes back to exposure to the truth - how do you work to expose this (and the role of journalism in this)

Seek the truth. Talk the truth. Even if that means being self critical and humble in admitting your mistakes and errors.

It is not your identity as Leaver, Remainer, Tory, Labour, LDer, SNPer, woman, man, English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Welsh or European right now.

These identities are harming us, by making us look at the wrong thing rather than see the real danger facing us. They divide us whilst they conquer us.

What you should be focusing on NOW is your commitment to democracy in the face of someone in power actively and explicity saying the rule of law does not matter and the courts are wrong. That is advocating mob rule.

Johnson stood and said threats to MPs were humbug. And refused to moderate his language despite so many (mainly female) MPs saying the threats they received were extremely serious (remembering we've even had a prosecution for a plot to kill Rosie Cooper as well as other successful prosecutions for threats to MPs)

This is where we are at.

Focus on it.

No Deal Brexit and the future of liberal democracy in this country are indivisible and inseparable. They are entwined by the rule of law.

Brexit is NOT in of itself a threat to liberal democracy. It is HOW we leave that is.

I wish this was being said and emphasised concisely and cleanly.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
30
BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 26/09/2019 21:03

I've just popped into the brexit arms. It's a putrid pulsing boil of pus that needs lancing. N

ContinuityError · 26/09/2019 21:03

Maybe a caretaker PM has been lined up and he’s being given enough rope to hang himself.

Et tu, Gove?

Alsohuman · 26/09/2019 21:06

Et tu, Gove?

I was thinking of Rebel Alliance PM.

thecatfromjapan · 26/09/2019 21:13

The website associated with Heidi Allen will be the one to go for.

It's based on some serious behind-the-scenes research.

It's going to be called 100 seats for Remain, or something - but it's looking closely at some 130 seats & will probably carry advice for all UK seats.

thecatfromjapan · 26/09/2019 21:14

Sorry - that post was about tactical voting.

My terrible phone-posting again.

I need to improve.

thecatfromjapan · 26/09/2019 21:16

The EU tactical voting thing was thrown together in a rush & it's metrics were a bit haphazard & not really up to the voting patterns of EU voting.

The Heidi Allen-referenced site is a very different thing.

ContinuityError · 26/09/2019 21:19

I was thinking of Rebel Alliance PM.

Can we play Fantasy Rebel Alliance PM and Speaker?

If so, I’m liking Harriet Harman for Speaker. I’d quite like Dominic Grieve or Yvette Cooper for PM (Ken Clarke and Margaret Beckett on the subs bench).

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 26/09/2019 21:20

*The most sensible tweet of the day

Carrie Quinlan
The Sir David Attenborough is officially named today. The advisory public vote to call it Boaty McBoatface was ignored because it was deemed a stupid idea that would make the UK look foolish. Morning,
@BorisJohnson
.
8:55 AM · Sep 26, 2019*

GrinGrinGrinGrin

I needed a laugh after inhaling the stale and oppressive air in the brexit arms. There's two or three posters (from here) making intelligent contributions or asking questions or suggesting compromise but otherwise it's the upward slope of the bell curve and no one has made it to the summit. Hell, not even a ski lift could get them up there.

ContinuityError · 26/09/2019 21:23

Bercows are you trying to suggest that 50% of the UK population might be of below average intelligence? Shame on you ...

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2019 21:28

John Major blasted BJ in another speech today:

https://cer.eu/sites/default/files/major%20speech%2026.9.19.pdf

The Prime Minister does not mince his words and – though with a little more decorum – nor will I.
...
The Prime Minister tells us he wishes to have a deal with Europe.
But we don’t see him sitting down in Brussels, hammering out an agreement.

Instead, we do see him wrestling with bulls in Scotland;
inspecting eggs in Wales;
and arguing with the public in high streets

– for all the world as if an election campaign was already in full swing.

We see him denying his visit to a hospital is a photo opportunity,
because “there are no reporters or cameras present”.

Oddly, at the same time, these non-existent cameras stream pictures of him onto our television screens, while photographers crowd the corridor.
.....
Ministers tell us, with a straight face, “We obey the law”
while the Prime Minister insists we will leave the EU on 31 October – even though an Act of Parliament has been passed forbidding that to happen without a deal.
....
the Prime Minister tells us the Court was wrong and he was right:
that is the cry of those found guilty of misdemeanours throughout the ages.

Meanwhile, Ministers continue to offer fantasy outcomes of what a post-Brexit future holds for people in every corner of our United Kingdom.

prettybird · 26/09/2019 21:30

But one of our esteemed Front Bench Gove thinks that everyone should be above average GrinConfused

Are you telling me that's not possible? Wink

Alsohuman · 26/09/2019 21:30

@ContinuityError, since you quoted me, I’m assuming you’re addressing me. If Johnson is removed by a vote of no confidence, a caretaker PM will be needed. Wtf has the Speaker got to do with anything?

Deux · 26/09/2019 21:34

Re Raab. Apologies I got my figures wrong earlier. His majority wasn’t halved which would be wishful thinking. It was reduced.

Our borough borders Greater London and I think that will have an effect. It’s not the Surrey proper of rolling hills; lots of people move here from Twickenham, Kingston, Fulham etc. If Labour didn’t field a candidate, well that might put the cat among the pigeons.

I just can’t believe what’s going on. DH thinks I’m overreacting, but I feel we are living in frightening times. It feels so sinister.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 26/09/2019 21:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ContinuityError · 26/09/2019 21:38

Alsohuman Apologies, just trying to inject a bit of humour (sorry it’s fallen flat).

But, given that Bercow is standing down at the end of October, a new Speaker that can hold truth to power is going to be vital.

Alsohuman · 26/09/2019 21:44

@ContinuityError, my fault. I think my sense of humour’s gone awol.

ContinuityError · 26/09/2019 21:45

No worries Wine Smile

ICouldBeSomebodyYouKnow · 26/09/2019 21:45

"@KarlTurnerMP tells me when he complained to Dominic Cummings about an overnight death threat, the PM's adviser replied that he should 'vote for a Brexit deal then"

(not sure who posted that originally, but ...)

Makes you wonder who's making the death threats.

prettybird · 26/09/2019 21:51

Going back a bit, this is an interesting blog about Naga Munchetty's censure for breaching the BBC's editorial guidelines. Angry

https://blackonwhitetv.blogspot.com/2019/09/donald-trump-bbc-and-what-happens-when.html?m=1

One of the comments makes the point I wondered: why wasn't Dan also censured for as a white man inciting her to breach the guidelines by giving her lived experience as a "woman of colour" Confused

It also begs the question: what would have happened if she'd answered, "I can't say as the BBC doesn't want me to express an opinion as someone affected by this issue." ? But of course, she wouldn't, as she's too professional.

BoreOfWhabylon · 26/09/2019 21:53

Karl Turner confronting Cummings

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2019 21:55

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall

Jess Phillips also tells me that the phones in her London office have had to be temporarily disconnected as too many people were jamming them screaming "betrayal" and "traitor".

HesterThrale · 26/09/2019 22:01

@IanDunt
The No.10 response to pretty much anything is to say that if MPs don't like it, they should back a deal. But there is no deal to back. The entire narrative is based on nothing.

mobile.twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1177268638316974088?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

ContinuityError · 26/09/2019 22:02

I’ve seen Naga slagged off because she plays golf.

Obviously, being female, under 50 and “a woman of colour” makes her ineligible to be rather good at golf.

PestyMachtubernahme · 26/09/2019 22:09

Man arrested for breaking into office of Jess Philips and screaming ‘fascist’ after she ordered Boris Johnson to apologise for Jo Cox comments.

Many moons ago we considered crowdfunding to send dictionaries to HoC.
I feel the need to support funding for local libraries.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 26/09/2019 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.