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Brexit

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 19:40

Parliament will reconvene tomorrow, at 11.30am, as if proroguation never happened as the Supreme Court ruled that the government acted outside the limits of its power and this was therefore unlawful.

The most senior court in the UK has ruled unaminously to defend Parliamentary Sovereignity and the Rule of British Law.

Unusually for a Wednesday there will be no PMQ, however there will be time for Ministerial Statements, UQ and Debate under S024.
See the abbreviation thread if you are struggling with these

So tomorrow is sure to be explosive on way or another.

The Government is hitting back by questioning the Supreme Court whilst also saying they respect the Supreme Court's authority. This is an oxymoron. Its being done for political reasons and is, in its own way, a direct threat to the Rule of Law.

Robert Buckland is, again, having to do a lot in Cabinet to assert the point of the importance of the Rule of Law and how it prevents mob rule. Something that seems to keep getting forgotten by anonymous No 10 sources.

The political fallout from the ruling is sure to lead to calls for the Supreme Court to be politically elected. This has been a long term goal of parts of the hard right.

Johnson, is currently in the US, so the announcement that parliament will be back tomorrow has rather spoilt his jolly to see his mate Donnie. He will have to get on a plane smartish.

But for all the hard talk there will also be ramifications for Johnson. Whilst there will be a lot of 'nothing has changed', and there is no chance of a VoNC in the HoC being tabled by the opposition whilst no deal is still on the table on the 31st Oct, there will still be problems for Johnson.

There will be a post mortem within his own party. The next Cabinet Meeting will almost certainly be explosive. There are already attempts to set Geoffrey Cox, the Attorney General who apparently advised that proroguation was lawful, under the bus as the fall guy. This will perhaps be a deflection to try and protect Dominic Cummings, as there will be moderate Tories who will seek to use this as an opportunity to have him sacked. But more than this, its likely to result in other Cabinet Ministers being more forceful and to challenge Johnson more, both for their own political gain and for their own political protection. He will certainly be more questioned from within, about his poor judgement.

We also have him facing an investigation from the London Assembly over his conduct and suggestions of an inappropriate relationship with a busty blonde American woman.

Next weeks Conservative Party Conference is now in tatters. Whilst Corbyn has wrapped up the Labour Party Conference early to avoid a clash with Parliament being open, Johnson is stuffed. Next week's PMQ will clash with the schedule for his Party Speech. Normally parliament would be in recess for the conference season, but parliament has to vote to allow this. And there isn't a majority for the Conservatives to now be able to do this. So Parliament almost certainly will be sitting next week.

Unfortunately, the Tories are a little stuffed with their conference being held in Manchester. If (and lets face it, with the gloves off and time short) the opposition want to cause mischief, they will try and schedule crucial and embarassing debates during the party conference, to keep MPs stuck in Westminister as much as possible. And with good reason under the circumstances.

We still have the small matter of the 31st October deadline which Johnson is still sticking to saying we will either have a deal or we will leave without a deal - unlawfully.

Remember on that note, Johnson has already acted beyond his power and unlawfully on the basis of bad advice. Johnson being hulk, rather than a girly swat, relies on the advice of others more heavily than his own wisdom and experience - of which he has been exposed time and again - to be somewhat lacking in.

As a side note, its also worth reflecting on the NCA having dropped charges in relation to Leave.Eu and how the Electoral Commission has commented on this decision:
"We are concerned about the apparent weakness in the law, highlighted by this investigation outcome, which allows overseas funds into UK politics. We have made recommendations that would tighten the rules on campaign funding and deter breaches. We urge the UK's governments to act on those recommendations to support voter confidence"

In the context of an imminent General Election, this is really very concerning indeed.

Just WHO is in control? Cos it doesn't look like its Boris Johnson right now, thats for sure.

OP posts:
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thecatfromjapan · 26/09/2019 07:50

I'm so sorry , Mojo.

That last post was inspired by your letter - and I didn't even mention it.

I feel like a bad human being.

(It's morning, I type laboriously on a phone, and I was distracted by a grumpy daughter venting at me about ... honestly, I have no idea whst'd going on. Theoretically, a missing water bottle but I think it's life ... Sad

But, yes, utterly brilliant letter.

NoWordForFluffy · 26/09/2019 07:51

My MP is utterly impervious to such correspondence, thecat. All I get back from him is the party line; he doesn't even address my points / arguments. Maybe I'll have yet another go.

Songsofexperience · 26/09/2019 07:52

How do we CTL + ALT + DEL our politics though? Are we too far gone for redemption?

Our politics are only Alt (right) + Delete. There's no control left.

Hoooo · 26/09/2019 07:53

I just don't know what to say.

wheresmymojo · 26/09/2019 07:54

If you have a Conservative MP, write to them. Call out the part of them that recognises the threat Johndon represents. Call on their humanity and morality. Tell them you see it, tell them you see the distance between them and Johnson, tell them they have support. Give them the strength and the reason to resist.

^ This. I know many on here have intense dislike for the Tories. But what we have now...this isn't even Tory. It's something else entirely. Some alt-right nightmare.

Post-truth, post-fact Trumpism. Trashing the institutions and rule of law that Conservatives have at the heart of their values.

We must appeal to the 'normal' Tories and let them know that we see the difference. Whatever you think of their policies they at least believed they were doing the right thing, they had some integrity and conscience.

We are on the knife edge of a turning point now - moderate Tories are staying because they believe they can take help moderate the party. We need to support them even if holding your nose. We need a right wing party - if we lose the moderate Tories we will have the alt-right instead.

wheresmymojo · 26/09/2019 07:56

That last post was inspired by your letter - and I didn't even mention it

Don't worry - I loved your post. I think we are all shell shocked this morning. We've seen this coming but to witness it so starkly as yesterday is shocking. I agree with everything you've written.

wheresmymojo · 26/09/2019 07:57

I'm hoping my email is one of the first things he'll see this morning when he opens his inbox

Songsofexperience · 26/09/2019 08:03

Call on their humanity and morality.

Both are based on reason. Reason is being drowned cruelly like unwanted kittens. The whole Enlightenment philosophy is constantly undermined by people who claim to defend 'western' values. There is also, as a result, a collective empathy bypass that is frightening to behold. Morality is undermined, values shift and the unacceptable becomes acceptable.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 26/09/2019 08:04

We must appeal to the 'normal' Tories and let them know that we see the difference.
Sadly I don't have one of those Tories here. The lady who stood for Labour here has come out and said she has received death threats and violent threats too, and the response was largely thats what you get if you put yourself out there publicly

thecatfromjapan · 26/09/2019 08:04

💐 @Mojo.

Hoooo · 26/09/2019 08:05

E mail sent.
I'm wasting my time.

Songsofexperience · 26/09/2019 08:07

Well done mojo
I'll do the same but mine is a lost cause

NotJustACigar · 26/09/2019 08:08

I was in London last week and saw the excellent Lucy Prebble play A Very Expensive Poison which I highly recommend - it's about the murder of Litvenenko using Polonium-210 (which happened when Theresa May was home secretary and she said an inquest would cause political problems and not be in the public interest). One of the points made in the play was that the Chechen rebels hostage situation in a theatre during which the Russian government ended up poisoning to death over 100 of its own citizens with an unknown gas.... it had the effect of getting people used to the idea that the government would be poisoning people and this became somewhat "normalised." There is only so much horror people can take in before they switch off to it. So by the time Litvenenko came along people were pretty much out of outrage and didn't really see if as a big deal.

So if we're asking ourselves how bad it can get, I would say look at Putin's Russia. Merely mocking the murder of female MPs is child's play. I'm sorry to depress everyone even further but we must be prepared. We must never forget these times are not normal and must stay outraged.

LizzieSiddal · 26/09/2019 08:09

Wonderful letter Mojo.

I fear emailing my Conservative MP will be futile. I’m ashamed to say it’s Desmond Swayne.Angry
Dh and I are thinking of moving house, solely due to frustration that our vote meaning absolutely nothing, he has one of the safest seats in the country. (Not to mention the anger of being surrounded by people who would chose such a person to represent them).

InMySpareTime · 26/09/2019 08:12

I'm on a hiding to nothing emailing my Tory MP, he's Graham Brady.
My previous (numerous) emails have all been answered with "party line" identikit replies, I doubt he even reads the body text, just gets a minion to pick a standard reply based on the heading.

wheresmymojo · 26/09/2019 08:14

When the Tories were clapping BJ's first statement - there were around 80 Tory MPs who did not clap and sat cross armed and stoney faced.

I saw them but didn't get to count - Tim Farron counted them.

...and that was before all the crap that followed.

wheresmymojo · 26/09/2019 08:15

Thanks for those with the hardliners in their constituencies.

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2019 08:17

New thread as things are running quickly and I'm about to leave the house

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3701799-Westminstenders-What-hangs-in-the-balance?watched=1

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 26/09/2019 08:17

My MP is gay. I'd be amazed if he hasn't been abused and attacked because of that at some point, especially since becoming an MP. I'm amazed that he defends his party's descent into the hard right given his own - very likely - personal experience of hate.

kingsassassin · 26/09/2019 08:17

I was listening to the today programme in the car and my blood pressure has just shot up again.

I don't know which labour politician was on - poss Diane Abbott, but she was talking about the awful language last night and the death threats mps have received. The presenter's argument was that 'this is just modern politics' and read out tweets to Luciano Berger from labour members, tweets from John McDonnell etc.

There is a journalistic point there, but actually it all comes back to a totally unacceptable form of attack on the legislature. It isn't okay if it's one group and not the other - nobody should do it and this should be supported by the executive. (And actually all party executives from any side). As it was, the programme became superb whataboutery which is absolutely not what is needed at the moment.

Motheroffourdragons · 26/09/2019 08:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

wheresmymojo · 26/09/2019 08:19

It won't surprise that the hardcore Brexiteers on the Tory forums loved every minute of yesterday.

I posted about how I felt about it and started to get likes from the moderates. So I think they will have pushed a lot of moderates over the edge now.

I've left the forums this morning for my own sanity. I can't carry on reading the posts on there.

As someone on Twitter pointed out though - they aren't bothered about moderates any more. They only need 35% and they're courting that 35% of authoritarian Leavers plus other Leavers who feel 'winning' Brexit is worth any cost.

berlinbabylon · 26/09/2019 08:21

I don't think emailing my MP would help, either. And one of the ones nearby is Michael Gove!

I have to say all this is just doing my head in. Johnson has always presented himself as the one nation Tory type. Why has he gone for this reckless, nasty, my way or the high way approach? He could have said that he didn't agree with May's red lines, he was going back to the EU to discuss SM and CU and once that was agreed we'd be able to leave "on time" in October. Most MPs would have signed that off and we'd be out. Instead he's gone for the most belligerent, aggressive, non-concilatory approach he could have possibly taken.

I get that some of his supporters are brexity no-dealers, but surely he realised that if he's going to bring the country together no deal isn't the way? Or doesn't he care?

I was trying to work out why you'd want to be PM of a broken country, (and broken up too, if Scotland leaves the UK) rather than a successful fair one. But then I was reading an article about Zimbabwe. 95% unemployment. I can't even compute that. Mugabe didn't care what the country was like as long as he was in charge. And Johnson and his hangers on seem to be the same.

Inniu · 26/09/2019 08:31

On the broken country, I thought this was interesting.

www.thecurrency.news/articles/812/societal-collapse-is-invariably-bad-for-asset-prices-it-is-time-to-sell-uk-assets

thecatfromjapan · 26/09/2019 08:33

I know the shouty 'Conservatives' are noisy but there are so many who are appalled by this - & by definition, they are just 'quieter'.

The most recent group of Conservatives I spent time with (at a polling station) were, indeed, moderate compared to Johnson. But loyal to their Party. Probably of the 'stay and fight' persuasion.

At least one of them must be having a terrible time, along with the rest of us, watching all this.

I really believe it pays to (terrible Americanism - but it encapsulates the shared humanity of what is necessary) reach out.