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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris Johnson Broke The Law

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 11:05

ITS OFFICIAL
The Highest Court in the Land has ruled that Boris Johnson has broken the law.

Parliament is Sovereign.

Despite the calls for his resignation it is highly unlikely he will under the current political climate.

It must be stressed that the judgement was UNAMINOUS and went further than most expected, and took the hardest possible line again the government

The power now lies with the Speakers of the Lords and Commons to decide when Parliament reopens.

It also means that all the bills which were ended by proroguation are now back in play.

Expect a full backlash from the hard right attacking the courts are going full on 'enemies of the people'. This will be NASTY

The strength of this ruling does pretty much rule out another proroguation as the courts are liable to throw it out immediately if they try it on again.

Johnson is in New York. He needs to get on a plane very quickly.

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DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 13:58

A leave supporter this morning was V V angry that the Judges were interfering in politics its gonna get messy

How messy ? Because I'm getting increasingly fed up of this spectre of "somethings gonna happen" being dredged up as a reason for kowtowing to the most moronic of the population who have latched onto Brexit as an excuse - as with 1970s football - for the chance of a bit of aggro.

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 13:59

On the upside at least we know what it is like to live in a banana republic now Confused

Alsohuman · 24/09/2019 13:59

The polls tell us all we need to know about what will happen when the election happens, and it won't be quite so pretty then.

The polls forecast a landslide for May. A lot of things change in the course of an election campaign.

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 14:00

Whatever happens Boris should not resign, he has broken not a single law in this land.
The Tory party conference should continue next week.

The following week he should prorogue parliament before the Queen's speech and a new session.

As long as he digs in and sees us out on the 31st he will win a landslide.

Random18 · 24/09/2019 14:00

Is revoke looking more likely?

I don't mean a permanent revoke as I don't think that is right at all at this time.

But a bill passed which basically says if BJ refuses to ask for an extension the article 50 will be revoked at this time.

Not sure what else they do.

They can't call a GE just yet I don't think?

Its clear now I don't think there would be numbers for a Govt of National Unity. Corbyn has done to much damage this week.

So if BJ won't ask for an extension what other option is there?

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 14:01

It is sclerotic, opaque, elitist: different nations bound together by a centralised bureaucracy that ordinary people can neither understand nor vote out.

Not understanding something is not a good reason for abolishing something. Its a reason to encourage transparency and engagment with the public so that people do understand it.

Think about it for a second: You are advocating abolishing something, stating you don't understand what it does. What happens if you bulldoze a wall, not understanding that it holds up the ceiling? You should NEVER get rid of something without understanding the effect of that. You need to have a plan of what comes next, otherwise you set up political vacuums (which are very very dangerous and might result in something worse). This is where we went wrong in having the Referendum in the first place (there was no plan for leave), and when we went to war in Iraq (there was no plan for what to do next).

Time and time again you see this mistake come through; if there is no thought given to the replacement governance then you get issues. Ironically this is where we DID do well after WWII. There was a cohesive and comprehensive plan that was drawn up. (Parts of this were not nice as it involved carving up Europe into spheres of influence between the UK, US and USSR but there was planning into this PRE end of the war). There was no desire to repeat the post WW1 era and subsequent 1930s void and how it was exploited to create the circumstances that led to WWII in the first place.

Part of the problem here is that our politicians never bothered to learn what the EU is and does. Thats more down to laziness rather than ability. This has been highlighted explicitly by MPs not getting what the Single Market and the Customs Union are when ordinary business owners have managed and mastered this for years.

Had they done so, and not used ignorance as a political weapon for their own ends and empowered the public to understand not only the EU but our OWN democractic structures and institutions then power could have been held to account and we'd have a better criminal justice system, better services, less corruption etc.

People ARE NOT stupid. They ARE however, not minded to make the effort to understand these things. They want them to be simplified rather than them spend the time to learn things. Thats APATHY.

It is not beyond the capability of 'ordinary people'. Its beyond the political willingness of a section of the population.

Thats a very different beast.

Worse still, in many instances, what we are witnessing is a deliberate effort to try and misinform 'ordinary people'. Often ordinary people are well aware of this, but they would rather indulge this misinformation, because it fits with the world view they have and their personal grievances and prejudices.

So NO, I do NOT accept the EU is over complex and opaque and beyond the comprehension of the average UK citizen.

I think thats a conscious and deliberate choice by many UK citizens and politicians.

The alternative is that we accept that that UK citizens are somehow intellectually inferior to the citizens of the other 27 nations of the EU, who DO manage to understand how the EU works and what it does, much better than we do as a nation.

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MockersthefeMANist · 24/09/2019 14:01

Well what a characteristically arrogant and cretinous response from BlowJob. He 'disagrees' with the ruling, which is a bit like disagreeing with gravity, and then goes on about how it was all about trying to stop Brexit, which the court was clear it was not.

From the ridiculous to the subllime, Peter Hennessy on WATO was on form.

prettybird · 24/09/2019 14:02

Had a Pilates class 10.15 to 11.15. First thing I got asked at the end of the class by the other ladies was, "What's the judgement?" as I'm viewed as the font of all political knowledge Grin (no, I'm not Lesley Riddoch: dh messaged me to ask if she was in my class as apparently she tweeted that she'd told the ladies at her Pilates class Grin).

I would imagine that Cummings' language on being told the judgement would make Malcolm Tucker look like a choir boy! Wink

In contrast, here are two relaxed cats to mark my place. Of course, I couldn't possibly make the bed while they were so relaxed Wink

Westministenders: Boris Johnson Broke The Law
QueenMabby · 24/09/2019 14:02

Not caught up on this thread yet but a couple of my fave quotes from the judgement:

*”But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable government: the antithesis of the democratic model.”

And:

“The Government exists because it has the confidence of the House of Commons. It has no democratic legitimacy other than that.”*

LouiseCollins28 · 24/09/2019 14:02

Any pro-Leave voters who've given this serious thought, should I believe conclude that one of the stated reasons for Leave was to "take back control" of "our laws". Quite right too, we absolutely should. This should mean that the UK Supreme Court becomes, well...."Supreme", so its decisions should command respect from all quarters.

"Talking back control of our laws" means our judges making "final" decisions, it does not mean that they make decisions that you'll like!

Note to Boris - Mate, don't pick a fight with a judge, you'll lose.

QueenMabby · 24/09/2019 14:04

Sorry. My quotes were supposed to be in bold. Typing fail.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/09/2019 14:05

Thegrass

Did you spot the crown at the top of the Supreme Court logo.

He won’t risk reproroguing parliament for anything more than the minimum time needed for a Queen’s Speech.

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 14:06

Do all the bills that failed because of proroguation, like the domestic violence one, come back to life now?

Those bills were suspended. Not failed. Not sure how long they can be suspended for.

Proroguation meant those bills had to start again from scratch in the new Parliamentary session and all progress that had been made on them though parliament was thrown in the bin.

Because proroguation never happened, it means that the hours of parliamentary time invested in them, are now saved and now stand - thus they can continue from where they left off rather than starting from the beginning again.

In some cases this was an awful lot of time and effort (its not just commons and lords, its also select committee time etc).

This is good news for Brexit as some of those bills - like the Trade Bill - were deemed essential to the mechanics of implementing Brexit, including no deal Brexit.

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DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 14:06

Not understanding something is not a good reason for abolishing something

One of the best bylines for why remainers were so angry was that it was like seeing a library being burned down by people who don't read. And I don't that that anger has in any way gone away, it's just on a different wavelength to the shout leaver type "anger" which is more akin to a toddler who can't have another sweet.

Alsohuman · 24/09/2019 14:07

Sean Jones QC: Dear Angry Brexiters, an independent Supreme Court upholding UK Parliamentary sovereignty is supposed to be your most precious dream.

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 14:08

red So you agree it is a single political structure?

Assuming you do, as that is what it is, why are you not more honest about this?

You underestimate the public's ability to see through the fog, and they can see what the EU Commission truly is, the ruling on this case will only reinforce the idea that the EU govern this country (and certainly not the government, now under siege)

You seem like a fairly intelligent individual, you will know then that there is no precedent, no basis in any legislation and just a reference to 1611 and the Divine Right of Kings!!

Which is pre-Parliamentary Reform!! 1689 and 1832.

The Supreme Court made it up, politicised themselves, and legislated without mandate.

No law has been broken because there is no law!

And in calling MPs as our representatives - it also makes a mockery of losers consent and the law on the statute books. WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL.

That is the law, not this abomination.

ContinuityError · 24/09/2019 14:10

RedToothBrush

It is sclerotic, opaque, elitist: different nations bound together by a centralised bureaucracy that ordinary people can neither understand nor vote out.

It’s a straight C&P from Johnson in June 2016.

m.facebook.com/borisjohnson/posts/10153755801946317

DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 14:12

He won’t risk reproroguing parliament for anything more than the minimum time needed for a Queen’s Speech.

When it was suggested Boris could just go and ask for prorogation again immediately after the judgement on the BBC, Dominic Grieve QC commented that because of this judgement, that attempt would be stayed.

If the government don't like SCOTUKs take on the matter, they are quite at liberty to present a bill into parliament changing the law, and when it passes, we'll have a new law. It's how parliamentary democracy works. I think some posters here must be from outside the UK (which is their loss, of course Grin) and are discussing a different form of democracy. Or indeed a different universe. I wonder what the gearknob on the Mini Metro was like there ?

Mistigri · 24/09/2019 14:13

Not sure about the grass being greener, but it could certainly do with being a bit less potent.

I merely observe that the sun is well past the yard arm in Asia, and that incoherent social media meltdowns are more likely to be alcohol than drug fuelled.

Yvette C. is on the warpath:

"The Liaison Committee was due to question the Prime Minister on Wed 11th Sept until he unlawfully prorogued Parliament on Mon 9th to avoid it. He must now come before @CommonsLiaison & answer questions about what on earth he & his Government are doing"

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 14:13

Boris Johnson is quite right to ignore this ridiculous ruling.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 24/09/2019 14:13

The 'Supreme' Court are all pro-EU activist judges.

Oh, sit down, you embarrassing little person.

DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 14:14

I guess as long as they are here, they aren't poisoning other minds ...

Cracklycaramel · 24/09/2019 14:14

BCF, Ivan Rogers certainly gave the impression of being a proper grown up. His assessments were well rounded and not at all simplistic. As a civil servant I could recognise the frustration he described when his assessment and advice was ignored and he came across as exceedingly competent and pragmatic. Given this, the fact he thought no deal was the most likely option is worrying.

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 14:15

And more to the point, when will parliamentary cases be rushed up to the Supreme Court in relation to the abuses of power by the speaker Bercow?

Why wasn't it a violation of our human rights that MP's decided, without consent, to sign off our democratic rights to the EU in the first place?

How is it that parliament can seize control of the executive body of government to overturn a referendum and this not be a matter for the courts?

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 14:15

So you agree it is a single political structure?

Assuming you do, as that is what it is, why are you not more honest about this?

I had a boss who had a saying which always used to drive me nuts. He used it all the time.

You make an Ass out of U and Me when you Assume things.

As much as I had the saying, it has lived with me and the principle upon which is it founded is one of those general rules to live your life by.

Don't assume things. You usually come out a cropper.

No thats not what I think.

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