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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris Johnson Broke The Law

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 11:05

ITS OFFICIAL
The Highest Court in the Land has ruled that Boris Johnson has broken the law.

Parliament is Sovereign.

Despite the calls for his resignation it is highly unlikely he will under the current political climate.

It must be stressed that the judgement was UNAMINOUS and went further than most expected, and took the hardest possible line again the government

The power now lies with the Speakers of the Lords and Commons to decide when Parliament reopens.

It also means that all the bills which were ended by proroguation are now back in play.

Expect a full backlash from the hard right attacking the courts are going full on 'enemies of the people'. This will be NASTY

The strength of this ruling does pretty much rule out another proroguation as the courts are liable to throw it out immediately if they try it on again.

Johnson is in New York. He needs to get on a plane very quickly.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
TokyoSushi · 24/09/2019 13:32

BJ coming home tonight:

Mollie Malone (Producer Sky News)
@Mollie_Malone1
·
3m
BREAKING: Number 10 say the Prime Minister will not resign. He will fly back to the UK later this evening. There will be a cabinet call today while he is in New York.

tobee · 24/09/2019 13:32

If this pisses off lots of leavers, Boris Johnson equally pisses off lots of other voters. It's still all about where the middle ground goes.

Not all voters are mad nutters.

TheMShip · 24/09/2019 13:32

Louise if more people on both sides of this were like you and willing to engage, listen, and reply constructively, we wouldn't be in this mess. I don't agree with your views on Brexit, but I appreciate your civility and thoughtfulness.

BlackCatFan · 24/09/2019 13:33

Given what's happened this morning, what are the chances now that we will no deal? I still don't hold much hope, it seems that Boris will just force it through, and there is no time left to fight it.. some good news today but I still feel hopeless. Sad

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/09/2019 13:33

grass could you put a good word in for me, I want to work in a russian bot farm cos I'm at a loose end currently and benefits isnt enough, so I'll write bollocks for pay, to some here I already do it for free Grin

DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 13:33

Do you honestly feel the verdict has any creditability at all?

What I feel, like what you think doesn't matter a flying flamingo.

placemats · 24/09/2019 13:33

Golly gosh and gee whizz, what's a tub of lard? Say's the lectern. And then goes on to piffle waffle.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/09/2019 13:34

I'll even stay quiet if its Aarron Banks paying my wages Grin

pumkinspicetime · 24/09/2019 13:34

louise I would have a bit more confidence in Brexit not being a total disaster is I heard a few more leavers like you and many less like grass.

TheElementsSong · 24/09/2019 13:35

What I feel, like what you think doesn't matter a flying flamingo.

GrinGrinGrin

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 24/09/2019 13:36

He will fly back to the UK later this evening
Will we have a live watch a la Priti Patel?

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 13:36

The polls tell us all we need to know about what will happen when the election happens, and it won't be quite so pretty then.

Sostenueto · 24/09/2019 13:36

Well I still think we are heading g for a no deal Brexit by ' accident' and if I was leader of the opposition i would not want a GE till after the shit hit the fan and the people feel the effect of a no deal brexit then go for GE.

FoldyRoll · 24/09/2019 13:36

Cummings is a busted flush. We haven't even melted yet, nor seen the Labour conference overshadowed by Tory greatness despite his lofty promises. Pouts

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 13:37

The ordinary British people through Brexit have exposed the media, British and international political elite, big business, super rich, luvvies, state bureaucracy and academia for the lying, corrupt parasites they are.

Whatever the noble ambitions on which it was founded, the EU is an anachronism.

It is increasingly anti-democratic; its supranational system is being imitated nowhere else on earth; and its economic policies are causing misery in many parts of the EU.

It is sclerotic, opaque, elitist: different nations bound together by a centralised bureaucracy that ordinary people can neither understand nor vote out.

It is an attempt to build a United States of Europe; to create a single political structure.

And yet no senior Remainer has so far had the honesty to defend the project for what it is.

No one on the Remain side has shown any shred of explicit federalist idealism; no one has called for Britain to join in “building Europe” or in creating a “European identity”.

That is because they know that this ideology – though dominant in Brussels – would be viewed with alarm by the British public.

placemats · 24/09/2019 13:37

Twitter brexiteers trolls are all over the place about the loss of democracy following the ruling.

Irony is lost on these people.

Plus, they don't like it up em.

DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 13:37

complete text ..

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/supreme-court-ruling-this-is-a-car-crash-not-just-a-bump-in-the-road-fpnjxf635

Supreme Court ruling: This is a car crash, not just a bump in the road

The government has made a grave error. For a Conservative government to find its actions revoked and reversed by the highest court, for it to have to be reminded forcefully of its constitutional and political duty by judges, and for it to have given advice to the Queen which has been found unlawful is a calamity.

And a calamity it has brought on itself. And all for what?

It has combined constitutional sharp practice (or unconstitutional sharp practice, as the court has now concluded) with an unforced political error. This error had a kick — it united the government’s opponents swiftly behind legislation on extending Article 50 — with a chaser of this public humiliation.

Two ideas have led to this mistake and the team at No 10 now need to reflect on both.

The first is that delivering the referendum result justifies almost any sort of rough move, however questionable. The second is the idea that their own cunning and gamesmanship is of a higher order than anyone else’s and means that they can act with appropriate ruthlessness. A ruthlessness that eluded, say, Theresa May or others for whose intelligence or ability they have little regard.

The Supreme Court ruling shows how unwise both these notions are. The referendum result is electoral advice of great weight and importance. It is, in my view, parliament’s duty to respect the result of a vote it called. We must leave the European Union, as voters determined that we should.

However, we live in a parliamentary democracy governed by laws set by parliament. Or at least we should do. The referendum did not determine the date of leaving, nor did it determine the method of doing so. That is for MPs to decide. It is quite wrong to feel that the referendum mandate allows the government to ride over the wishes of parliament on these matters just because it disagrees strongly with the parliamentary majority.

It is also wrong to feel that the executive either should or will be able to outrun the law. The executive must obey the law and it will have to. The government is not cleverer than the rest of us, and it will not prove more ruthless than its opponents. It is dangerous and foolish for it to think that it is.

The government may be tempted to see this judgment as a bump in the road, just a minor skirmish in a bigger battle. It should resist this temptation. This is a car crash not a bump, a rout not a skirmish.

The government will have to accept the disciplines — the law and the parliamentary majority — that this case imposes on it. It will have to reconsider its plans on an extension and on leaving with no deal as a result.

It may, of course, legally be able to prorogue again but it will no longer be able insouciantly to say that the law doesn’t matter because there are always loopholes. And this — far more than anything parliament might do if it meets — will have its impact on the Brexit outcome.

Finally, a word on the powers of the Supreme Court. This will prove a landmark in its history and a major constitutional moment. To see this as merely legally unremarkable is naive.

But if the government, or anyone else, is tempted to suggest that the judgment reflects bias over Brexit it should be reminded that the executive’s entire case rested on the idea that the prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit. It’s a line that would undermine the entire case the government put.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/09/2019 13:38

The polls tell us all we need to know about what will happen when the election happens, and it won't be quite so pretty then.

You are aware that incitement to violence is an actual crime right? Hmm

theoriginalmadambee · 24/09/2019 13:39

Shock surely BJ can't survive this, you must have laws protecting parliament/population against 'crooks'?

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 13:39

The law says we can't leave without a deal on 31st Oct. The law also says we are leaving on 31st Oct regardless of whether we have a deal.

The law is a bit fucked here.

Bottomline is the PM has a legal responsibility to not abuse his power and act beyond the limits of his power and do something unlawful.

Thus as it stands UNLESS Johnson either deals or extends, he's acted unlawful and can be held personally liable in a civil court or criminal court for anything that is a direct result of no deal.

First on the list of possible court cases would be for misconduct in a public offence. Theres also lots of financial liabilities, but it goes much further than this.

If we have deaths, we also potentially go to gross negliance manslaughter. However in noting the following description of gross negliance manslaughter here, I do wonder if thats where it would end:
Gross negligence manslaughter is a form of involuntary manslaughter where the defendant is ostensibly acting lawfully. Involuntary manslaughter may arise where the defendant has caused death but neither intended to cause death nor intended to cause serious bodily harm and thus lacks the mens rea of murder. Whereas constructive manslaughter exists where the defendant commits an unlawful act which results in death, gross negligence manslaughter is not dependant on demonstrating an unlawful act has been committed. Gross negligence manslaughter can be said to apply where the defendant commits a lawful act in such a way as to render the actions criminal. Gross negligence manslaughter also differs from constructive manslaughter in that it can be committed by omission.

So what is constructive manslaughter?

Constructive manslaughter is also referred to as unlawful act manslaughter. Constructive manslaughter is a form of involuntary manslaughter in that an unlawful killing has taken place where the defendant lacks the mens rea of murder. There are two types of involuntary manslaughter: constructive manslaughter exists where the defendant commits an unlawful dangerous act which results in death; where the defendant commits a lawful act which results in death this may amount to gross negligence manslaughter.

Elements of the offence:

The offence of constructive manslaughter can be broken down into three elements:

1. There must be an unlawful act
2. The unlawful act must be dangerous
3. The unlawful dangerous act must cause death

Good luck Mr Johnson.

There will be a queue waiting in those courts.

No wonder he might not like them and why he might like to seek to strike them down and undermine their power and the rule of law.

OP posts:
FoldyRoll · 24/09/2019 13:39

Cool story, greengrass. Hmm

DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 13:40

What happens when if Murdoch decides that Boris isn't the man to deliver Brexit ?

We can dream, but there's something powerful about the idea of Boris leaving NY as PM, and arriving in the UK as Mr. Johnson (which put like that sounds like a coded message for a cleaning crew needed in cubicle 3) ?

placemats · 24/09/2019 13:41

Thegrasscouldbegreener

Grin

Brilliant. You are quite the satirist. Love it.

DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 13:42

The law is a bit fucked here.

Except there is one more court above SCOTUK. Let's see if any of our Brexity friends can have a guess what it is, while I get a coffee. I'm betting they can't, but you never know. (Excludes Louise from that dragnet Grin)

Inniu · 24/09/2019 13:43

Do all the bills that failed because of proroguation, like the domestic violence one, come back to life now?

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